Book Plunge: Grand Theft Childhood

[Apologiaphoenix]

Do violent video games lead to violent children?

-----------------

What do I think of Lawrence Kutner and Cheryl Olson's book published by Simon and Schuster? Let's plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

I heard about this book while going through The Gaming Mind on Audible. Making a mental note, I went to my library website and ordered it. I'm thankful that I did. This has been an amazing read on the alleged link between video games and violence in children.

This is not a book written from a Christian perspective, at least explicitly. The authors do not state their worldview. However, the authors have interacted with the material they critique and have also included snippets of interviews they have done with children and their parents.

To which, a lot of that information should be encouraging to parents. Older children, for instance, happen to think there are some games that their younger brothers and sisters shouldn't be playing and they won't play when those people are around. Surprisingly, something they were often concerned about was swearing. After all, there are a lot of things in a game hard to copy, but swearing isn't. All you have to do is speak.

Also, something that needs to be said is that many times, children actually do imbibe their parents' worldviews more than parents realize and learn what to play and not play. Of course, this isn't across the board, but children are watching and are learning. Quick pro tip here on how parents can better understand what's going on in the games of their children. Play the games with them and/or talk to them about them. (Yeah. Actual interaction with your children works. Who would have thought?)

The authors also don't just look at the fact that children play violent games, but often ask why they do. Many times, children say that this actually helps them deal with their anger. In an odd way, that could be saying that rather than cause aggressive behavior in children, video games actually help to alleviate it. Frankly, if there was a strong connection between violent video games and violent children, we would see a lot more violent children.

Also interesting is that if anything, NOT playing video games, especially for boys, could be more of a problematic sign. Remember the Virginia Tech shooter? Something odd his classmates said after about him was, "He never wanted to play video games with us." Video games are often a tool of social integration and bonding. Kids today get together to talk about games like Pokemon. I started getting more friends in Elementary School and beyond because I had a reputation as being quite good at video games.

The authors also point out that the hysteria over video games has happened over most every new form of media that has come out. Violence and sex in these has never been new. Go back to ancient history? It's there. Medieval times? Still there. Renaissance and Enlightenment? Yep. What would be an anomaly is a time where such stories did NOT exist.

What about sex in video game? Yep. This is covered. (Odd way of describing it.) Most of us know about Lara Croft and the hope of so many teenage guys to find a nude code to use for her. Now, many games can be even more explicit. Again, this is something that parents need to talk with their children about, but it is not a shock that females are made to be attractive in video games. The Final Fantasy series in X, XII, XIII, and relevant spin-offs from those games all had a protagonist with a very similar look based on what was attractive in Japan at the time.

So when is there a problem? It's not in the gaming itself. It's everything around that. If your child is becoming more withdrawn, has a dramatic change in moods, has no or very few friends, and is dropping grades, don't blame it on the games. The games are often a way of dealing with whatever the real problem is. Find that.

For parents also, the last chapter is all about practical advice for you and it does enforce what I recommend. Play the games with your children, or at least talk about them. Show an interest in them. If the world of the Legend of Zelda means something to your child, find out why. You could get to understand your child better and your child will think they matter when you show interest in what interests them.

If you enjoy gaming and want to deal with criticism, read this book. If you are a parent and you are concerned about your children and video games, read this book. The same applies if you are a teacher or someone in ministry, especially youth ministry.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

[Catholicity]

Do violent video games lead to violent children?

-----------------

What do I think of Lawrence Kutner and Cheryl Olson's book published by Simon and Schuster? Let's plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

I heard about this book while going through The Gaming Mind on Audible. Making a mental note, I went to my library website and ordered it. I'm thankful that I did. This has been an amazing read on the alleged link between video games and violence in children.

This is not a book written from a Christian perspective, at least explicitly. The authors do not state their worldview. However, the authors have interacted with the material they critique and have also included snippets of interviews they have done with children and their parents.

To which, a lot of that information should be encouraging to parents. Older children, for instance, happen to think there are some games that their younger brothers and sisters shouldn't be playing and they won't play when those people are around. Surprisingly, something they were often concerned about was swearing. After all, there are a lot of things in a game hard to copy, but swearing isn't. All you have to do is speak.

Also, something that needs to be said is that many times, children actually do imbibe their parents' worldviews more than parents realize and learn what to play and not play. Of course, this isn't across the board, but children are watching and are learning. Quick pro tip here on how parents can better understand what's going on in the games of their children. Play the games with them and/or talk to them about them. (Yeah. Actual interaction with your children works. Who would have thought?)

The authors also don't just look at the fact that children play violent games, but often ask why they do. Many times, children say that this actually helps them deal with their anger. In an odd way, that could be saying that rather than cause aggressive behavior in children, video games actually help to alleviate it. Frankly, if there was a strong connection between violent video games and violent children, we would see a lot more violent children.

Also interesting is that if anything, NOT playing video games, especially for boys, could be more of a problematic sign. Remember the Virginia Tech shooter? Something odd his classmates said after about him was, "He never wanted to play video games with us." Video games are often a tool of social integration and bonding. Kids today get together to talk about games like Pokemon. I started getting more friends in Elementary School and beyond because I had a reputation as being quite good at video games.

The authors also point out that the hysteria over video games has happened over most every new form of media that has come out. Violence and sex in these has never been new. Go back to ancient history? It's there. Medieval times? Still there. Renaissance and Enlightenment? Yep. What would be an anomaly is a time where such stories did NOT exist.

What about sex in video game? Yep. This is covered. (Odd way of describing it.) Most of us know about Lara Croft and the hope of so many teenage guys to find a nude code to use for her. Now, many games can be even more explicit. Again, this is something that parents need to talk with their children about, but it is not a shock that females are made to be attractive in video games. The Final Fantasy series in X, XII, XIII, and relevant spin-offs from those games all had a protagonist with a very similar look based on what was attractive in Japan at the time.

So when is there a problem? It's not in the gaming itself. It's everything around that. If your child is becoming more withdrawn, has a dramatic change in moods, has no or very few friends, and is dropping grades, don't blame it on the games. The games are often a way of dealing with whatever the real problem is. Find that.

For parents also, the last chapter is all about practical advice for you and it does enforce what I recommend. Play the games with your children, or at least talk about them. Show an interest in them. If the world of the Legend of Zelda means something to your child, find out why. You could get to understand your child better and your child will think they matter when you show interest in what interests them.

If you enjoy gaming and want to deal with criticism, read this book. If you are a parent and you are concerned about your children and video games, read this book. The same applies if you are a teacher or someone in ministry, especially youth ministry.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

I just surveyed hundreds of records of this. It's not violent video games per se. However it is all extensive video game play that is linked to violent out bursts and not for the reasons you might think. That said, violent, high stress video games are frequently used in the military as a way to desensitize soldiers to violence. No not all children who play video games will become violent but not all sugar addicts develop diabetes either. There are three factors found in every major shooting since Jonesboro, AK in 1995. Lack of parental involvement. Poorly treated mental health, and extensive video game play. Video games play with the dopamine receptors. BTW for more on this research the increase in violence of all kinds with the introduction of television

[Apologiaphoenix]

I just surveyed hundreds of records of this. It's not violent video games per se. However it is all extensive video game play that is linked to violent out bursts and not for the reasons you might think. That said, violent, high stress video games are frequently used in the military as a way to desensitize soldiers to violence. No not all children who play video games will become violent but not all sugar addicts develop diabetes either. There are three factors found in every major shooting since Jonesboro, AK in 1995. Lack of parental involvement. Poorly treated mental health, and extensive video game play. Video games play with the dopamine receptors. BTW for more on this research the increase in violence of all kinds with the introduction of television

But the VT shooter didn't have extensive video game playing.

Neither did the Sandy Hook shooter, unless you want to say DDR led to a mass shooting.

The main contributor I think would be #1. Lack of parental guidance. These people have a poor worldview. It could it's not violent games make people do violence. It could be violent people often like violent games.

[Christianbookworm]

Correlation does not equal causation. There can be a third factor responsible for it. I've heard that violent people often are way too obsessed with violent media.

[Cerebrum123]

I just surveyed hundreds of records of this. It's not violent video games per se. However it is all extensive video game play that is linked to violent out bursts and not for the reasons you might think. That said, violent, high stress video games are frequently used in the military as a way to desensitize soldiers to violence. No not all children who play video games will become violent but not all sugar addicts develop diabetes either. There are three factors found in every major shooting since Jonesboro, AK in 1995. Lack of parental involvement. Poorly treated mental health, and extensive video game play. Video games play with the dopamine receptors. BTW for more on this research the increase in violence of all kinds with the introduction of television

The part about the shootings simply isn't true. Video games have been blamed in the past without evidence or with minimal evidence*, because it is a convenient boogeyman to blame the issue on. People would much rather lay the responsibility for such horrible actions on some outside force instead of at the feet of those who actually do deserve blame. There is some evidence that there is an inverse correlation with moderate video game playing, and violence even with extremely violent games.

As for the military, yes they do use violent video games in their training. Just not for the reasons you think. Those games don't actually desensitize people to real world violence, but they do help in learning to coordinate as a team. Ones that also happen to be able to teach the skills they need on the job, and be able to show in advance what kind of stuff they will be dealing with are very useful for those reasons. Those who appear "desensitized" to violence were not sensitive to it to begin with. My mom's cousin was in the Army as a pilot, and played both those training games, and stuff like Halo and Call of Duty, none of it was able to prepare her for what she had to endure in actual combat. I believe she was in Iraq and Afghanistan, but it might have been one or the other. I've heard that same kind of story over and over again, even from someone I know who was very, very violent before going into the military. Taking a human life is just too different from anything these games do for anyone who is not a complete psychopath to not notice the difference.

You are seriously trying to use dopamine reception with regards to video games as an argument against it? Well, there goes eating, sleeping, going outside, listening to music and much, much more. Nearly everything people do involves dopamine in some way. From successfully completing a project you've been working on, to playing competitive sports**, to playing video games of all kinds. Now, Skinner's boxes to exist, and those should be eliminated from gaming, but those are effectively the same tactics that casinos use to keep people gambling. That kind of method has 0 to do with how violent a video game is. Even something as tame as Animal Crossing can have those things implemented in a malicious way. It's a game about building a life for yourself and paying off a bunch of debt you have in order to live in the house you start at.

*The Wal-Mart shooter in El Paso mentioned video games in passing one time, but he was motivated by his hatred of Hispanics. Video games are ubiquitous these days, so some level of familiarity is expected. I was not allowed to play the more violent games when I was young, but I still knew what Mortal Kombat was and how they performed "Fatalities".

**Something which attracts violent people just as easily as violent video games. In fact the kind of violence that does increase from playing games is across all competitive video games even if they are not violent, just as there is an increase in violence in those who play competitive sports.

Edit. I accidentally deleted the part about the social changes that have contributed to the issue. Like the destabilization of the nuclear family, to the anti-white anti-male rhetoric that has been increasing in frequency, and people's inability to deal with issue when they start instead of just giving them a pass. Nearly all of those shooting could have been avoided if people had just intervened earlier. Heck, even the FBI knew about how unstable some of these people were, but never did anything about it. This war on personal responsibility needs to stop, and that includes people blaming any medium of art for society's ills. Whether it be plays, movies, TV, comic books or video games an art medium is never inherently the cause. Yes, you can find horrible things in each of those that do encourage bad things, but that is the nature of art. If all it takes is one piece of art to set you off on a homicidal rampage, then it wasn't the art that was the problem. It's like alcohol, too much alcohol is bad for anyone, but if it can turn you into a monster, that monster was always there, just beneath the surface.

[Cerebrum123]

Correlation does not equal causation. There can be a third factor responsible for it. I've heard that violent people often are way too obsessed with violent media.

That's part of the issue too, certain things are more likely to attract a specific audience, but it doesn't mean it is inherently evil. Any kind of competition will attract more aggressive people, it is the nature of many competitive people.

[KingsGambit]

It is interesting that Grand Theft Auto is here. I'm curious if anybody here would take the tack that playing Grand Theft Auto, a game where you can run over police officers and prostitutes or shoot them dead, is consistent with the Christian walk, or if it's likely to produce good fruit.

A previous post was critical of making such restrictive choices for teenagers. I will be blunt and say that if a parent does *not* prevent their underage child from playing such a game, they are a bad parent.

On another note, the idea that not playing video games could be a red flag doesn't quite fit the context of what was said. One could easily substitute "watching sports" or "spending time on Discord" from that quote if it's what differentiates a withdrawn kid from others.

[Catholicity]

But the VT shooter didn't have extensive video game playing.

Neither did the Sandy Hook shooter, unless you want to say DDR led to a mass shooting.

The main contributor I think would be #1. Lack of parental guidance. These people have a poor worldview. It could it's not violent games make people do violence. It could be violent people often like violent games.

Actually both of them had issues with video game addictions. Sandy Hook shooter more so than VT. However it wasn't constantly "violent" games as you would suppose. There have been studies done where kids play video games and they are given pet scans and neurotransmitter levels are measured. Video games directly correspond to increases in dopamine followed by sharp drops, the same as is seen in drug addiction. The other thing found is that the impulse control centers are sharply decreased temporarily after playing them. In the right kid, it is a factor and should not be ignored.
The other issue, and as I mentioned, violent video games were and are used as tools for desensitization in the military. Why do you think that is?

[Apologiaphoenix]

Actually both of them had issues with video game addictions. Sandy Hook shooter more so than VT. However it wasn't constantly "violent" games as you would suppose. There have been studies done where kids play video games and they are given pet scans and neurotransmitter levels are measured. Video games directly correspond to increases in dopamine followed by sharp drops, the same as is seen in drug addiction. The other thing found is that the impulse control centers are sharply decreased temporarily after playing them. In the right kid, it is a factor and should not be ignored.
The other issue, and as I mentioned, violent video games were and are used as tools for desensitization in the military. Why do you think that is?

You would need to show they had issues with them. Cho's classmates said that if anything was noteworthy about Cho, it was that he did NOT play video games. The Sandy Hook shooter had some violent games, but the main games he played were DDR and Mario Kart.

You would also need to show the military specifically uses video games as tools of desensitization. They do encourage first person shooters not to desensitize, but to get used to being in the mindset of always being a soldier.

[Cerebrum123]

You would need to show they had issues with them. Cho's classmates said that if anything was noteworthy about Cho, it was that he did NOT play video games. The Sandy Hook shooter had some violent games, but the main games he played were DDR and Mario Kart.

You would also need to show the military specifically uses video games as tools of desensitization. They do encourage first person shooters not to desensitize, but to get used to being in the mindset of always being a soldier.

She has a point about some games causing the reactions that promote gambling addiction, but from what I've seen those tend to be specifically tailored to get people to spend as much money as possible, and some of the most recognized names in gaming don't have those kind of mechanics. Stuff like Raid Shadow Legends, or various "freemium" games on the market put as much unethical crap to encourage bulk and impulse buys. Generally those aren't particularly violent, and are usually geared towards a T rating at highest with a small handful of exceptions I'm sure. In some countries there are now laws against the kind of mechanics that do that(like "loot boxes"), the "gacha"* style games that are so prominent on mobile devices. Similarly manipulative tactics exist even in grocery stores. They put the produce and other healthy stuff in the back making you wade through a ton of crap to get there, they either have baked goods or the scent of baked goods in the store to make you hungry for such foods, they put candy bars right at checkout to encourage impulse buys. Businesses have been using human psychology and physiology against them for a long time. However, I will admit those types of games are a particularly egregious example, and should have those aspects removed if they are going for a younger audience.

*It's short for "gachapon" a Japanese onomatopoeia associated with those little machines you put a coin in and get a random toy.

[rogue06]

*It's short for "gachapon" a Japanese onomatopoeia associated with those little machines you put a coin in and get a random toy.

We call those vending machines which can still be found in many stores where you get a toy in a plastic egg after you put your coins in.

[Cerebrum123]

We call those vending machines which can still be found in many stores where you get a toy in a plastic egg after you put your coins in.

Usually a "vending machine" around here is specifically for drinks and soda.

[Christianbookworm]

Usually a "vending machine" around here is specifically for drinks and soda.

And snacks/candy!

[Cerebrum123]

And snacks/candy!

Those tend to count here too, but they are significantly less common in the area.

[rogue06]

Usually a "vending machine" around here is specifically for drinks and soda.

I'm talking about these, not what you find in employee break rooms

0c029186-121b-4c8a-80ab-f83cc02c1537.jpg
The one in the center with the plastic eggs holding a "toy"