Announcement

Collapse

Deeper Waters Forum Guidelines

Notice – The ministries featured in this section of TheologyWeb are guests of this site and in some cases not bargaining for the rough and tumble world of debate forums, though sometimes they are. Additionally, this area is frequented and highlighted for guests who also very often are not acclimated to debate fora. As such, the rules of conduct here will be more strict than in the general forum. This will be something within the discretion of the Moderators and the Ministry Representative, but we simply ask that you conduct yourselves in a manner considerate of the fact that these ministries are our invited guests. You can always feel free to start a related thread in general forum without such extra restrictions. Thank you.

Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.

We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.

General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
See more
See less

Abstinence and the Virgin Birth (Which I do affirm)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    Which is, as Rogue (and I) stated, a theological viewpoint.



    If I remember rightly Rogue has previously stated that he is more henotheistic than monotheistic. The former is a belief that (some) other gods exist, but they are not worthy of consideration. Even as late as the fourth century, monotheism was not particularly endorsed by Christian leaders.
    That wasn't me.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by tabibito View Post

      Which is, as Rogue (and I) stated, a theological viewpoint.
      On the contrary my comment was dismissed by rogue06 as "irrelevant".

      Originally posted by tabibito View Post

      If I remember rightly Rogue has previously stated that he is more henotheistic than monotheistic. The former is a belief that (some) other gods exist
      You can cease "mansplaining".

      Originally posted by tabibito View Post
      , but they are not worthy of consideration.
      Not strictly. More that other gods are considered to exist but the individual worships just one deity as supreme. Do his friends here know of his potentially heretical views?

      Originally posted by tabibito View Post
      Even as late as the fourth century, monotheism was not particularly endorsed by Christian leaders.
      What evidence are you citing for that statement? If that was the case, one wonders why Christians had such issues over their pinch of incense.
      "It ain't necessarily so
      The things that you're liable
      To read in the Bible
      It ain't necessarily so
      ."

      Sportin' Life
      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        On the contrary my comment was dismissed by rogue06 as "irrelevant".
        It was the appropriate response. He did however also state, "When you write that there is no "Supreme Creator Being" you are expressing a religious opinion."

        You can cease "mansplaining".
        If that had been what I was doing, I would merely have been taking a leaf from your own book.

        Not strictly. More that other gods are considered to exist but the individual worships just one deity as supreme.
        Which is to say, "Other gods are not worthy of notice." (feel free to desist from your "mansplaining.")

        Do his friends here know of his potentially heretical views?
        I had misunderstood Rogue's position on that one. Henotheism however isn't necessarily heretical - unless the person making the claim chooses to believe that Paul was a heretic.

        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
        .
        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
        Scripture before Tradition:
        but that won't prevent others from
        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
        of the right to call yourself Christian.

        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by tabibito View Post

          It was the appropriate response. He did however also state, "When you write that there is no "Supreme Creator Being" you are expressing a religious opinion."
          And he was incorrect.

          Originally posted by tabibito View Post
          I had misunderstood Rogue's position on that one.
          Glad to read it. I doubt anyone would have enjoyed his "anathematization "

          Now would you care to answer my question pertaining to the following statement?


          Originally posted by tabibito View Post

          Even as late as the fourth century, monotheism was not particularly endorsed by Christian leaders.


          What evidence are you citing in support of that remark?
          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post


            Originally posted by tabibito View Post


            Even as late as the fourth century, monotheism was not particularly endorsed by Christian leaders.

            What evidence are you citing in support of that remark?
            "not particularly endorsed" should have been "not consistently endorsed." Right now, it would take more time than it is worth to sift through all the material to find the references again.
            Paul's acknowledgement of the existence of other gods is enough to show that the earliest church was not necessarily monotheistic anyway.
            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
            .
            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
            Scripture before Tradition:
            but that won't prevent others from
            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
            of the right to call yourself Christian.

            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by tabibito View Post

              "not particularly endorsed" should have been "not consistently endorsed." Right now, it would take more time than it is worth to sift through all the material to find the references again.
              Paul's acknowledgement of the existence of other gods is enough to show that the earliest church was not necessarily monotheistic anyway.
              Again what evidence are you citing? If you have material to hand - regardless of how long it would to take to "sift through" you must have some idea of what the material is and what it contends.

              Or is that an excuse?.
              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                Again what evidence are you citing? If you have material to hand - regardless of how long it would to take to "sift through" you must have some idea of what the material is and what it contends.

                Or is that an excuse?.
                Sifting through would take some hours, perhaps days. Cast that in a negative light if as you will.
                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                .
                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                Scripture before Tradition:
                but that won't prevent others from
                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                  Sifting through would take some hours, perhaps days. Cast that in a negative light if as you will.
                  Given your comments "Sifting through would take some hours, perhaps days" would appear to indicate the amount of material in your possession is substantial, I am somewhat surprised that you cannot recall a single author, title, nor even a brief synopsis of any specific article/paper/book that you allege to possess.

                  Your excuse does read as somewhat feeble.
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                    Sifting through would take some hours, perhaps days. Cast that in a negative light if as you will.
                    ETA

                    Perhaps you can also explain, given this plethora of material in your possession, why [as you have alleged]:

                    Even as late as the fourth century, monotheism was not particularly endorsed by Christian leaders.


                    Christians had such issues over a pinch of incense? If as [according to you] they were not strictly monotheistic what was their problem with performing such an act?

                    Your contention does rather fly in the face of known evidence.
                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                      Given your comments "Sifting through would take some hours, perhaps days" would appear to indicate the amount of material in your possession is substantial, I am somewhat surprised that you cannot recall a single author, title, nor even a brief synopsis of any specific article/paper/book that you allege to possess.

                      Your excuse does read as somewhat feeble.
                      Make of it what you will, and cast whatever aspersions you will.
                      I think that there is something in Ad Diognetus, and in the writings of Origen but can't be certain.
                      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                      .
                      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                      Scripture before Tradition:
                      but that won't prevent others from
                      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                      of the right to call yourself Christian.

                      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                        Make of it what you will, and cast whatever aspersions you will.
                        I think that there is something in Ad Diognetus , and in the writings of Origen but can't be certain.
                        Is that the best you can offer amid this wealth of material you apparently possess? I think you might be pressed to find anything in Diognetus or indeed Origen that condones anything other than Christian monotheism.

                        Your comment suggests that you have not read a great deal - or at least not retained a great deal - of this material.

                        Now to my other question, if:

                        Even as late as the fourth century, monotheism was not particularly endorsed by Christian leaders.


                        What was the issue with the pinch of incense?
                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                          Is that the best you can offer amid this wealth of material you apparently possess? I think you might be pressed to find anything in Diognetus or indeed Origen that condones anything other than Christian monotheism.

                          Your comment suggests that you have not read a great deal - or at least not retained a great deal - of this material.

                          Now to my other question, if:

                          Even as late as the fourth century, monotheism was not particularly endorsed by Christian leaders.


                          What was the issue with the pinch of incense?
                          yawn
                          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                          .
                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                          Scripture before Tradition:
                          but that won't prevent others from
                          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                          of the right to call yourself Christian.

                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                            yawn
                            Your inability to address the question is duly noted.
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                              ETA

                              Perhaps you can also explain, given this plethora of material in your possession, why [as you have alleged]:

                              Even as late as the fourth century, monotheism was not particularly endorsed by Christian leaders.


                              Christians had such issues over a pinch of incense? If as [according to you] they were not strictly monotheistic what was their problem with performing such an act?

                              Your contention does rather fly in the face of known evidence.
                              Monolatry would make a pinch of incense rather problematic.

                              I see that, as usual, you have managed to drag this thread entirely off-topic.
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                                Monolatry would make a pinch of incense rather problematic.
                                From your comment tabibito was wrong and hence the historical evidence of Christians refusing to make that simple offering despite his contention that:

                                monotheism was not particularly endorsed by Christian leaders.


                                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                                I see that, as usual, you have managed to drag this thread entirely off-topic.
                                I have not dragged it off topic - it meandered its own way off topic. rogue06 even made comments pertaining to a post he made some time ago about the origins of Christmas.

                                "It ain't necessarily so
                                The things that you're liable
                                To read in the Bible
                                It ain't necessarily so
                                ."

                                Sportin' Life
                                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-15-2024, 10:19 PM
                                14 responses
                                75 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-13-2024, 10:13 PM
                                6 responses
                                61 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Apologiaphoenix  
                                Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-12-2024, 09:36 PM
                                1 response
                                23 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-11-2024, 10:19 PM
                                0 responses
                                22 views
                                2 likes
                                Last Post Apologiaphoenix  
                                Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-08-2024, 11:59 AM
                                7 responses
                                54 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post whag
                                by whag
                                 
                                Working...
                                X