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Is Abortion Forgivable?

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  • Is Abortion Forgivable?

    Can you find healing?

    -----------

    Is there hope if you have done this? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

    Yesterday, I found myself in a Facebook post on this debate on abortion and had someone telling me that God says all sin is equal in His eyes. I asked where this is and I am still waiting. All sin will exclude you from God’s presence, but some sins are worse than others. All crimes will mean you don’t have a perfect record before the law, but it’s better to have a speeding ticket than it is to be charged with murder.

    Yet in all of this, there is one debate that needs to be settled. Now I realize not everyone agrees that what is in the womb of a woman is a life, but for this post, I am going to be speaking to those who believe it is and whether they believed it or not at the time, now realize that they have taken an innocent life in abortion and struggle with guilt. Indirectly, this will also be something for the men who either pushed a woman to have an abortion and have guilt or did nothing to help a woman who came to them for help and have guilt.

    Can you be forgiven? Can the blood be wiped off of your hands? Can you ever enter into the presence of God with joy? Assuming you made it into the joyful presence of God, would your child forgive you?

    The good news is that the answer to all of those questions is yes.

    If you have done this and you confess and repent and ask Jesus for forgiveness, you will receive it. You can become a Christian or renew your Christian walk just for the asking. It’s easy for us to sometimes see God as someone who would rather punish than someone who would rather show love.

    This doesn’t mean that God will remove all the consequences of your actions. You could and likely still will have a lot of healing to go through. There are other people in your life you might have to make amends to, such as maybe parents who might have wanted a grandchild. There will be a lot of work, but forgiveness should never be an issue.

    You are not loved based on your performance. You are loved because God is love and God loves you and says you are lovable. Your child in the Kingdom of God will have no hatred towards you. There is perfect forgiveness there as well. No one there will have anything against anyone at all.

    If you are a woman who has done this and you are seeking healing, I urge you to get it. The first place I think of is Rachel’s Vineyard. This ministry, like the next one, is not just for women but is also for men. Men can have guilt for abortion just as much as a woman can. The benefit with this first ministry is that it specifically centers around abortion.

    The second one I think of is Celebrate Recovery. This ministry normally will meet at an area church and is a Christian form of a 12-step program. I have even been in it myself and I came to really treasure the guys that I was in relationship with.

    Either way, please get help. Get a good church family, a good therapist, and get the healing you need. If possible, try to share your story. Keep another young mother or father from making the same mistake you did.

    You are loved. You can be forgiven. You can live life with joy.

    Accept it.

    In Christ,
    Nick Peters
    (And I affirm the virgin birth)
    Is there hope if you have done this? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out. Yesterday, I found myself in a Facebook post on this debate on abortion and had someone telling me that God says all sin is equal in His eyes. I asked where this is and I am still waiting. … Continue reading Is Abortion Forgivable?

  • #2
    If Jesus can ask forgiveness for those who murdered him, I think there is forgiveness here for anyone who sincerely wants it.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #3
      This seems blindingly obvious here on TWeb, but we do need to keep in mind that this stuff isn't obvious to people who aren't Christians, and it's well worth dispelling misconceptions. (My church growing up did outreach to the deaf, and I learned that many deaf people sincerely believe that they are not allowed in church. Thus the church had blank tracts titled "Reasons deaf people are excused from church". I would have thought that was completely obvious without knowing that context.)
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • #4
        Why would they think that they couldn't come?
        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
          Why would they think that they couldn't come?
          See my last post. In a post-Christian society, many people know nothing about Christianity at all, including the notion that all sins are forgivable.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

          Comment


          • #6
            Remember if you don’t sin, Jesus died for nothing.

            More seriously, though, I’ve always thought the answer to this question from a Christian perspective is inextricably linked to one’s doctrinal position on infant damnation.

            I love doing difficult questions with my brother. This is one of the more difficult questions I’ve discussed with him.

            If a Christian views an unbaptized infant as damned, and a fetus as morally equivalent to an unbaptized infant, then aborting a fetus irrevocably damns the fetus to hell. I don’t know if that would be forgivable, but it’s surely a sin. Conversely, if infants are not damned, then aborting a fetus provides a guarantee of salvation that wouldn’t otherwise be available. Guilt is only clear to me in the first case.

            How can guaranteeing a child’s salvation be a sin?

            To show harm, it’s theologically necessary to embrace infant damnation. Both the logic and its untenable conclusion seem inescapable. But infant damnation is morally repugnant, not just in my current, atheistic view, but in my view when I was a Christian, and in the views of the parishioners who asked my brother the same question.

            How, or even why, would anyone worship a God that sends innocent children to hell?

            I love and admire my brother Bob and treasure our conversations, but on this one, he wasn’t able to offer more than a shrug and an assurance that Jesus would figure it out.

            If that’s good enough for you, I’m okay with that.

            But it’s not good enough for me.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
              Remember if you don’t sin, Jesus died for nothing.
              Jesus came so that the capacity to not sin could be restored, and on occasion gave commands to people that they sin no more. I will admit that there are counterarguments, but none that I consider compelling.

              More seriously, though, I’ve always thought the answer to this question from a Christian perspective is inextricably linked to one’s doctrinal position on infant damnation.

              I love doing difficult questions with my brother. This is one of the more difficult questions I’ve discussed with him.

              If a Christian views an unbaptized infant as damned, and a fetus as morally equivalent to an unbaptized infant, then aborting a fetus irrevocably damns the fetus to hell. I don’t know if that would be forgivable, but it’s surely a sin. Conversely, if infants are not damned, then aborting a fetus provides a guarantee of salvation that wouldn’t otherwise be available. Guilt is only clear to me in the first case.

              How can guaranteeing a child’s salvation be a sin?

              To show harm, it’s theologically necessary to embrace infant damnation. Both the logic and its untenable conclusion seem inescapable. But infant damnation is morally repugnant, not just in my current, atheistic view, but in my view when I was a Christian, and in the views of the parishioners who asked my brother the same question.

              How, or even why, would anyone worship a God that sends innocent children to hell?

              I love and admire my brother Bob and treasure our conversations, but on this one, he wasn’t able to offer more than a shrug and an assurance that Jesus would figure it out.

              If that’s good enough for you, I’m okay with that.

              But it’s not good enough for me.


              The concept of justifiable (not necessarily justified, but justifiable) homicide seems to have some merit. Times of war, self defence, penalty for heinous crimes, perhaps even killing one so that others may survive: which might include suicide, or not resisting an murderous aggressor. There are people whose existence I find an inconvenience - some of them might even be said to constitute powerful arguments in favour of post natal abortion. None of that justifies wanton killing, or dreaming up lame excuses to justify killing.

              The question of abortion being acceptable in some circumstances can be reasonably supported in favour, and I do consider that in some circumstances it is justifiable. Abortion on demand cannot be reasonably defended. Whether or not harm is ultimately done to the aborted foetus is not at issue: the Bible is silent on the matter, and I am yet to encounter anyone who has been provided with the answers more directly. The issue is whether wanton abortion, or abortion on the basis of a flimsy excuse in an attempt to justify it can be supported. "The pregnancy is inconvenient or embarrassing" is no excuse for abortion. "I can't afford to support the baby" is no excuse; putting the baby up for adoption is an option. In more than 90% of abortions conducted, there is no reasonable excuse for termination, particularly after the first trimester. The remainder (some estimates go as low as 2% or less) can be supported.
              1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
              Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
              .
              "when the church no longer teaches its people why they believe what they believe, the world will often step in and fill in the gaps." Ryan Danker

              "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                Jesus came so that the capacity to not sin could be restored, and on occasion gave commands to people that they sin no more. I will admit that there are counterarguments, but none that I consider compelling.
                Corollary to the original claim, which was admittedly not original, if you don’t sin, Jesus coming to restore your ability to not sin was for nothing.

                The concept of justifiable (not necessarily justified, but justifiable) homicide seems to have some merit. Times of war, self defence, penalty for heinous crimes, perhaps even killing one so that others may survive: which might include suicide, or not resisting an murderous aggressor. There are people whose existence I find an inconvenience - some of them might even be said to constitute powerful arguments in favour of post natal abortion. None of that justifies wanton killing, or dreaming up lame excuses to justify killing.
                Outside the realm of eternal rewards and punishments, there is no eternal damnation, and hence no infant damnation, and hence no moral responsibility for damning a fetus via abortion under the rebuttable assumption that a fetus is equivalent to an infant. And conversely no moral imperative to abort in order to prevent damnation. But inside that realm, eternal destinations have to be considered before judging actions like abortion.

                The question of abortion being acceptable in some circumstances can be reasonably supported in favour, and I do consider that in some circumstances it is justifiable. Abortion on demand cannot be reasonably defended. Whether or not harm is ultimately done to the aborted foetus is not at issue: the Bible is silent on the matter, and I am yet to encounter anyone who has been provided with the answers more directly.
                And that’s where it always ends up. This is a real question, with eternal consequences for those who believe in life after death, biblical silence notwithstanding. If infants are damned, then aborted fetuses go to hell. If they are not, they go to heaven. Allowing them to come to term then constitutes an avoidable risk of eternal harm.

                It’s not like I didn’t begin by saying this was a difficult question.

                The issue is whether wanton abortion, or abortion on the basis of a flimsy excuse in an attempt to justify it can be supported. "The pregnancy is inconvenient or embarrassing" is no excuse for abortion. "I can't afford to support the baby" is no excuse; putting the baby up for adoption is an option. In more than 90% of abortions conducted, there is no reasonable excuse for termination, particularly after the first trimester. The remainder (some estimates go as low as 2% or less) can be supported.
                Christian conservatives in this country have thrown arithmetic to the wind in targeting the principal provider of birth control to at-risk teens who are already having sex but not ready to talk to their parents about it. All of these arguments, from the begged question of wanton abortions to the percentage of abortions supportable by more considerate Christians, are essentially religious.

                And because they are religious, they all come back to the question of infant damnation.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Coming at it from a conditional immortality perspective, there simply is no emotional sting to the question of infant damnation. Perhaps they go on to eternal life, perhaps they don't. But they certainly don't eternally go to hell.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    When I was a Christian I thought that God might not put souls into embryos that he knew through his omniscience would be aborted, or that if they were aborted he might reincarnate them into other embryos until they actually got to have a chance at a life. I thought that given about 50% of embryos abort naturally, that whatever system God has in his wisdom put in place for dealing with them (be it any of those options I had thought of, or the more traditional options like limbo or heaven etc) that he would certainly be able to cope with the small number of additional abortions stemming from human intention, and thus viewed abortion as not a theologically important matter if one trusted in the wisdom and power of God.

                    (For those interested in the nature of the Church background, it was miscellaneous Baptist churches in New Zealand over a period of about 20-25 years. Baptist churches internationally are more moderate and mainstream than US ones, and the SBC kicked themselves out of the International Baptist Union in a hissy fit because they were too fundamentalist for it. I do not recall abortion being discussed in church ever as a topic in the decades I was there, probably largely since it isn't in the bible and the sermons and discussions tended towards being bible-passage-focused or gospel-focused or social-gospel-focused.)
                    Last edited by Starlight; 07-02-2022, 11:25 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      When I was a Christian I thought that God might not put souls into embryos that he knew through his omniscience would be aborted, or that if they were aborted he might reincarnate them into other embryos until they actually got to have a chance at a life. I thought that given about 50% of embryos abort naturally, that whatever system God has in his wisdom put in place for dealing with them (be it any of those options I had thought of, or the more traditional options like limbo or heaven etc) that he would certainly be able to cope with the small number of additional abortions stemming from human intention, and thus viewed abortion as not a theologically important matter if one trusted in the wisdom and power of God.

                      (For those interested in the nature of the Church background, it was miscellaneous Baptist churches in New Zealand over a period of about 20-25 years. Baptist churches internationally are more moderate and mainstream than US ones, and the SBC kicked themselves out of the International Baptist Union in a hissy fit because they were too fundamentalist for it. I do not recall abortion being discussed in church ever as a topic in the decades I was there, probably largely since it isn't in the bible and the sermons and discussions tended towards being bible-passage-focused or gospel-focused or social-gospel-focused.)
                      That's not so far off some versions of Molinism.
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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