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Margaret Sanger and the Klan

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  • Margaret Sanger and the Klan

    When is racism okay?

    ----------

    Why do Margaret Sanger statues still stand? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

    I have never supported the tearing down of statues. Our history is not perfect, but we often try to think we can erase it like it never happened. Ultimately, it’s about symbolism. On explaining that further, I highly recommend reading this book.

    So many people had their statues torn down regularly, but surprisingly, one person seemed to be immune to this. I wasn’t the one who first noticed this. The Babylon Bee actually made a point of this. Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, remained safe.

    Some people have had statues, books, and paintings removed for the most tenuous links to racism, even if it was their ancestors and not them themselves. However, if anyone has some connections to racism, it would be Sanger. To start with, birth control was largely promoted by her in order to promote the favored races and stifle the reproduction of the unfavored races.

    This was the Eugenics movement. Did we take that seriously? Yep. That’s because there was this guy in Germany at the time named Hitler who was doing this by exterminating the people that he deemed unfit. World War II quickly put an end to the Eugenics movement, at least officially.

    However, in her autobiography, Sanger talks about speaking to a group of aroused supporters. She considered any group like that a good group to talk to. Therefore, she accepted the invitation and went to speak.

    So what was this group?

    See for yourself:
    All the world over, in Penang and Skagway, in El Paso and Helsingfors, I have found women’s psychology in the matter of childbearing essentially the same, no matter what the class, religion, or economic status. Always to me any aroused group was a good group, and therefore I accepted an invitation to talk to the women’s branch of the Ku Klux Klan at Silver Lake, New Jersey, one of the weirdest experiences I had in lecturing.

    So let’s also consider the way the logic works here.

    An aroused group is a good group.
    The women’s branch of the KKK was an aroused group.
    Therefore, the women’s branch of the KKK was a good group.

    You can read the book here.

    Now I am consistent in that I think removing statues doesn’t work. If Planned Parenthood wants to keep the statue, they have that freedom. However, I notice that Sanger remains safe despite having ties like this. Not only that, but her organization of Planned Parenthood is celebrated as is the abortion that the organization promotes.

    We know the reason why. No one dares to touch abortion since it is practically a sacrament to many on the left. We have seen with the news of the leak recently from the Supreme Court that people are going berserk because Roe V. Wade could be overturned.

    This is why Sanger gets a lot more grace than anyone else does. Sanger goes and speaks to the KKK? No outrage whatsoever. Someone else was a descendant of someone who was thought to be a racist? We must expel them from our history!

    I don’t expect consistency at all on this front. However, it looks like when it comes to which is more important, keeping abortion or removing any hint of racism, keeping abortion, which by the way can eliminate babies who are minorities, abortion wins.

    Quite revealing.

    In Christ,
    Nick Peters
    (And I affirm the virgin birth)
    Why do Margaret Sanger statues still stand? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out. I have never supported the tearing down of statues. Our history is not perfect, but we often try to think we can erase it like it never happened. Ultimately, it’s about symbolism. On explaining that further, I highly recommend … Continue reading Margaret Sanger and the Klan

  • #2
    Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
    Some people have had statues, books, and paintings removed for the most tenuous links to racism, even if it was their ancestors and not them themselves.
    Do you have any examples of this happening? It seems beyond extreme to me.

    As for Sanger, I don't see how her speaking to the women of the KKK about birth control says anything about her other than that she wanted to speak about birth control.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Stoic View Post

      Do you have any examples of this happening? It seems beyond extreme to me.

      As for Sanger, I don't see how her speaking to the women of the KKK about birth control says anything about her other than that she wanted to speak about birth control.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2IiNd9c1OY&t=5s

      Comment


      • #4
        A couple of years ago Planned Parenthood of Greater New York removed her name from their Manhattan clinic in response to her ties to and support of the eugenics movement.


        “The removal of Margaret Sanger’s name from our building is both a necessary and overdue step to reckon with our legacy and acknowledge Planned Parenthood’s contributions to historical reproductive harm within communities of color,” Karen Seltzer, chair of the board at Planned Parenthood of Greater New York, said in a statement. “Margaret Sanger’s concerns and advocacy for reproductive health have been clearly documented, but so too has her racist legacy.

        The New York chapter, which is one of the largest affiliates of Planned Parenthood, also announced it is working to change an honorary street sign that marks “Margaret Sanger Square” at Bleecker and Mott streets in Manhattan.

        The efforts are the first of many “organizational shifts” to confront Sanger’s legacy and institutional racism more broadly, the chapter said in a statement. Last month, the chapter’s chief executive, Laura McQuade, was ousted from her job after hundreds of former and current employees signed public letters accusing McQuade, who is white, of abusive behavior and a failure to address complaints about systemic racism, pay inequity and a lack of upward mobility for black employees — allegations McQuade denied.



        And this by Alexis McGill Johnson, the president and chief executive of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, published in the New York Times: I’m the Head of Planned Parenthood. We’re Done Making Excuses for Our Founder. We must reckon with Margaret Sanger’s association with white supremacist groups and eugenics.


        [...]

        Up until now, Planned Parenthood has failed to own the impact of our founder’s actions. We have defended Sanger as a protector of bodily autonomy and self-determination, while excusing her association with white supremacist groups and eugenics as an unfortunate “product of her time.” Until recently, we have hidden behind the assertion that her beliefs were the norm for people of her class and era, always being sure to name her work alongside that of W.E.B. Dubois and other Black freedom fighters. But the facts are complicated.

        Sanger spoke to the women’s auxiliary of the Ku Klux Klan at a rally in New Jersey to generate support for birth control. And even though she eventually distanced herself from the eugenics movement because of its hard turn to explicit racism, she endorsed the Supreme Court’s 1927 decision in Buck v. Bell, which allowed states to sterilize people deemed “unfit” without their consent and sometimes without their knowledge — a ruling that led to the sterilization of tens of thousands of people in the 20th century.

        The first human trials of the birth control pill — a project that was Sanger’s passion later in her life — were conducted with her backing in Puerto Rico, where as many as 1,500 women were not told that the drug was experimental or that they might experience dangerous side effects.

        We don’t know what was in Sanger’s heart, and we don’t need to in order to condemn her harmful choices. What we have is a history of focusing on white womanhood relentlessly. Whether our founder was a racist is not a simple yes or no question. Our reckoning is understanding her full legacy, and its impact. Our reckoning is the work that comes next.

        And the first step is making Margaret Sanger less prominent in our present and future. The Planned Parent Federation of America has already renamed awards previously given in her honor, and Planned Parenthood of Greater New York renamed its Manhattan health center in 2020. Other independently managed affiliates may choose to follow.

        [...]


        Looks like some in PP are starting to do to Sanger what the Mormons did to Brigham Young.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #5
          More specifically: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...Floyd_protests

          Some of these are more problematic than others (I don't think removing statues for Confederate generals is problematic in the first place; this is the United States, and we shouldn't honor people for taking up arms against it.) The removal of the Slave Auction Block is the kind of thing that is more like removing history (though to be fair, it was relocated to a museum, possibly for its safety).

          To put my cards on the table, though, I'm leery of statues from a Christian perspective, though we've discussed this on here and I don't think anybody else agreed.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
            I didn't see any examples there of your claim: "Some people have had statues, books, and paintings removed for the most tenuous links to racism, even if it was their ancestors and not them themselves."

            The closest thing I found was Ted Hughes being (mis)identified as being associated with slavery. His works were never removed, though, nor (AFAICT) was there ever any plan to do so.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Stoic View Post

              I didn't see any examples there of your claim: "Some people have had statues, books, and paintings removed for the most tenuous links to racism, even if it was their ancestors and not them themselves."

              The closest thing I found was Ted Hughes being (mis)identified as being associated with slavery. His works were never removed, though, nor (AFAICT) was there ever any plan to do so.
              I'm not sure what's insufficient about what I shared from Douglas Murray.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post

                I'm not sure what's insufficient about what I shared from Douglas Murray.
                You claimed that folks with tenuous connections to racism were having their statues removed. You were asked for examples. You responded with a weblink. Arguing by weblink is frowned about around here. Nevertheless your respondent watched the video. He didn’t find an example.

                Enough.

                Provide an example or retract. Please.

                And while you’re at it, feel free to explain how Sanger encouraging white supremacists to practice birth control promotes white supremacism.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Like the bust of Ulysses S. Grant that was torn down in San Francisco? Grant is probably best known for leading the Union army in its victory over the Confederacy which led to the abolishment of slavery.





                  While it is true that he did once own a slave for a short time, as Wikipedia explains

                  The same year, Grant acquired a slave from his father-in-law, a thirty-five-year-old man named William Jones.[100] Although Grant was not an abolitionist, he was not considered a "slavery man", and could not bring himself to force a slave to do work.[101] In March 1859, Grant freed William by a manumission deed, potentially worth at least $1,000, when Grant needed the money.[102]


                  A grand in 1859 is equivalent to about $30,000 in 2020 and a whole lot more after old Joe gets done.

                  There was a story about a Revolutionary War hero who was also an abolitionist getting his statue toppled which caused a good deal of commotion when it happened but I cannot find any details right now, so how about the statue in Richmond, Virginia dedicated to the police of that city killed in the line of duty? It was vandalized twice by rioters forcing its removal to prevent its destruction





                  Similarly, the Delaware Law Enforcement Memorial in Dover had the statue of a kneeling cop partially decapitated causing it to be removed for repairs.

                  There was also the Pioneer Statue in Oregon, which depicted a trapper, and had nothing to do with racism or slavery, but was vandalized and removed basically because it celebrated pioneers -- who were white and therefore obviously evil.

                  The Thomas Elk Fountain in Portland, Oregon, which features a statue of an Elk, was also damaged by rioters. I guess the elk was racist.


                  ETA: It wasn't a Revolutionary War figure who was an abolitionist, but rather a Union officer who was killed in combat at Chickamauga and was an abolitionist by the name of Hans Christian Heg. His statue was torn down, decapitated and thrown into a nearby river by BLM rioters in Madison, Wisconsin.

                  Again, to be clear, this was the statue honoring a Union officer who died fighting the Confederacy, who was an abolitionist, and who's statue was torn down and vandalized by some "mostly peaceful protestors"


                  Last edited by rogue06; 05-26-2022, 07:28 AM.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    Like the bust of Ulysses S. Grant that was torn down in San Francisco? Grant is probably best known for leading the Union army in its victory over the Confederacy which led to the abolishment of slavery.


                    While it is true that he did once own a slave for a short time, as Wikipedia explains

                    The same year, Grant acquired a slave from his father-in-law, a thirty-five-year-old man named William Jones.[100] Although Grant was not an abolitionist, he was not considered a "slavery man", and could not bring himself to force a slave to do work.[101] In March 1859, Grant freed William by a manumission deed, potentially worth at least $1,000, when Grant needed the money.[102]


                    A grand in 1859 is equivalent to about $30,000 in 2020 and a whole lot more after old Joe gets done.

                    There was a story about a Revolutionary War hero who was also an abolitionist getting his statue toppled which caused a good deal of commotion when it happened but I cannot find any details right now, so how about the statue in Richmond, Virginia dedicated to the police of that city killed in the line of duty? It was vandalized twice by rioters forcing its removal to prevent its destruction





                    Similarly, the Delaware Law Enforcement Memorial in Dover had the statue of a kneeling cop partially decapitated causing it to be removed for repairs.

                    There was also the Pioneer Statue in Oregon, which depicted a trapper, and had nothing to do with racism or slavery, but was vandalized and removed basically because it celebrated pioneers -- who were white and therefore obviously evil.

                    The Thomas Elk Fountain in Portland, Oregon, which features a statue of an Elk, was also damaged by rioters. I guess the elk was racist.


                    ETA: It wasn't a Revolutionary War figure who was an abolitionist, but rather a Union officer who was killed in combat at Chickamauga and was an abolitionist by the name of Hans Christian Heg. His statue was torn down, decapitated and thrown into a nearby river by BLM rioters in Madison, Wisconsin.

                    Again, to be clear, this was the statue honoring a Union officer who died fighting the Confederacy, who was an abolitionist, and who's statue was torn down and vandalized by some "mostly peaceful protestors"

                    Rioters aren't known for their rationality. If this was a thread decrying the senselessness of riots and rioters, then your examples would be appropriate (except for the Pioneer statue, which was removed due to protests by native Americans), and there would be no argument.

                    But the OP is comparing the treatment of Sanger to the treatment of people who have "the most tenuous links to racism", and if rioters had come across a statue of Margaret Sanger, they probably would have torn that down, too. The question is whether there are any examples of people who were no more connected to racism than Sanger who have been treated worse than Sanger, by people who were actually thinking about what they were doing.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                      Rioters aren't known for their rationality. If this was a thread decrying the senselessness of riots and rioters, then your examples would be appropriate (except for the Pioneer statue, which was removed due to protests by native Americans), and there would be no argument.

                      But the OP is comparing the treatment of Sanger to the treatment of people who have "the most tenuous links to racism", and if rioters had come across a statue of Margaret Sanger, they probably would have torn that down, too. The question is whether there are any examples of people who were no more connected to racism than Sanger who have been treated worse than Sanger, by people who were actually thinking about what they were doing.
                      Agreed. Rioters tend to destroy anything willy-nilly, including local businesses. If we are to be consistent, we should be arguing that the black-owned businesses that were destroyed in Minneapolis were being torn down due to a purported tie to white supremacy.
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                        Rioters aren't known for their rationality. If this was a thread decrying the senselessness of riots and rioters, then your examples would be appropriate (except for the Pioneer statue, which was removed due to protests by native Americans), and there would be no argument.

                        But the OP is comparing the treatment of Sanger to the treatment of people who have "the most tenuous links to racism", and if rioters had come across a statue of Margaret Sanger, they probably would have torn that down, too. The question is whether there are any examples of people who were no more connected to racism than Sanger who have been treated worse than Sanger, by people who were actually thinking about what they were doing.
                        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                        Agreed. Rioters tend to destroy anything willy-nilly, including local businesses. If we are to be consistent, we should be arguing that the black-owned businesses that were destroyed in Minneapolis were being torn down due to a purported tie to white supremacy.


                        After the OP made the statement that "statues, books, and paintings removed for the most tenuous links to racism," Stoic challenged its veracity:

                        Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                        Do you have any examples of this happening? It seems beyond extreme to me.


                        Admittedly this was not directed to me but I knew of a couple instances that would qualify (even if I had some of the details wrong about one regarding Hans Christian Heg), so I figured that I'd post them and confirm that was indeed the case (although I'm only personally aware of statues).

                        If y'all want to explain or rationalize those acts, that's fine by me, but the fact is that it happened, which was what was called into question.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          After the OP made the statement that "statues, books, and paintings removed for the most tenuous links to racism," Stoic challenged its veracity:



                          Admittedly this was not directed to me but I knew of a couple instances that would qualify (even if I had some of the details wrong about one regarding Hans Christian Heg), so I figured that I'd post them and confirm that was indeed the case (although I'm only personally aware of statues).

                          If y'all want to explain or rationalize those acts, that's fine by me, but the fact is that it happened, which was what was called into question.
                          I'm sorry, but which of those statues were torn down because of ties to racism?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            A grand in 1859 is equivalent to about $30,000 in 2020 and a whole lot more after old Joe gets done.
                            Thanks for the examples, but yikes! No, we don’t give people credit for the funds they could have received by making a man pay for being freed from slavery. What were you thinking.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                              I'm sorry, but which of those statues were torn down because of ties to racism?
                              The statues of those racist cops[1] who were killed on duty and the bust of that slaveholder (who never made him work and soon freed him). And the statue of Hans Christian Heg WAS targeted as a statue of a racist and even after the morons realized they tore down a statue of someone who actually led a militia that targeted slave-catchers in Wisconsin some of them shrugged their shoulders and declared that it represented systemic racism of the state.



                              1. BLM and other leftists kept telling us that the police are inherently racist -- which was a major reason they wanted them defunded.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment

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