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Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.
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General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.
We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.
General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
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On being a current apologist: A response to Randy Hardman
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Originally posted by whag View PostPlease define "take it straight." As in you have faith those are true events?"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostBasically, that's my default position until the evidence points elsewhere.
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Originally posted by whag View PostDoes the default position require effort to believe or is doubt not an issue at all? I'm just wondering if it's necessary to put labor into believing stories not relevant to salvation."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostNot this particular one, no. I don't have a problem trusting God on moral judgments given the wider implications of God's nature in the Christian worldview. Speaking personally, in the past, it was more of a struggle when I felt I had to take Genesis more literally because the cognitive dissonance was ever-looming. But that was because of specific evidence, not because of moral difficulty.
If I understood you correctly that you believe everything in the OT by default (save for creation and a global flood), I was asking if it took effort to keep doubt at bay.
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Originally posted by whag View PostI was referring to extraordinary events like Elisha and the rent children, not the midian affair that you determined was tribal braggadocio. You said you took it straight, which I assumed meant you believe everything in the Bible unless evidence arises contradicting it.
If I understood you correctly that you believe everything in the OT by default (save for creation and a global flood), I was asking if it took effort to keep doubt at bay."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostNo, it really doesn't. Christian faith is firmly grounded in the resurrection of Jesus, and with that in mind, whatever comes up about the OT, whether it's the latest archaeological finding in the news or whatever, I can just say "Cool, so maybe that's what happened" and not worry about whether the whole edifice comes down.
What if a Christian like Enns finds that hard to believe even without direct evidence that it didn't happen?
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Originally posted by whag View PostSo something like sons of god mating with women on the earth is believed by default unless proven otherwise?
What if a Christian like Enns finds that hard to believe even without direct evidence that it didn't happen?"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Ultimately, Christianity is about the divinity of Jesus, not about the divinity of the Bible. It is not a religion that one can try to deflate by poking a few holes in the Bible here and there."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostEnns would be the first to point out that Genesis 1-11 is clearly in response to Mesopotamian myth and has to be considered separately from the rest of Scripture. The account you mention appears there.
Some people are very resistant to being told some of their favorite scriptures are myth. You'd think this would be a liberating thing for some to hear and give them some freedom to wander off the beach blanket.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostUltimately, Christianity is about the divinity of Jesus, not about the divinity of the Bible. It is not a religion that one can try to deflate by poking a few holes in the Bible here and there.
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I've read a few more Enns articles since last post. The more I think about it, I realize he's right about conquest apologetics. CA has a main argument that alone doesn't convince, and so other arguments justifying the violence in the human rational mind must be presented. One of those arguments made by Craig--the children were thrown into the arms of Jesus--really doesn't resonate at all. It sounds like creepy proabort speak.
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