It always has to be about evolution, doesn't it? To be fair, Hardman emphasized it in the blog series Nick is responding to. I simply never had a problem reconciling the two; my brain may be wired uniquely.
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Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.
We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.
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On being a current apologist: A response to Randy Hardman
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"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by jpholding View PostIn other words, you actually had no point of any relevance or worth to this discussion. Thank you.
Besides, the man Enns didn't repeat the talking points to had Holy Spirit epistemology, so he couldn't be as in danger as King's Gambit seems to think he was.
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Originally posted by whag View PostIt's relevant that Enns is one of the few apologists who pushes back on creationism. As a result, Christians attack him for not repeating the same lame talking points."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostIt always has to be about evolution, doesn't it? To be fair, Hardman emphasized it in the blog series Nick is responding to. I simply never had a problem reconciling the two; my brain may be wired uniquely.
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Originally posted by whag View PostNo, my point is that you're lamenting Enns effect on that man, making way too much of his silence on the talking points. It's clear from his blog that he's a Christian, and here you are saying he should probably have been drowned by millstone. That was the verse up we're referring to, yes?"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostEnns isn't an apologist, he's an academic (and there is no shortage of Christian academics who do push back on creationism).
I agree there are many liberal Christian academics who push back on creationism.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostUm, no, I'm not saying Enns should have a millstone around his neck. First, I think we all know Jesus used hyperbole... and second, my only point was rather that taking extra care for the weak (physically or spiritually) is a Christian principle. I was just trying to present this as a scriptural principle, not as a prooftext for anything.
You make atheism sound like it's just around the corner for some Christians. I thought Holy Spirit epistemology was the "defeater" in these cases, such as the man who asked Enns about his "certainty."
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Originally posted by whag View PostIt's relevant that Enns is one of the few apologists who pushes back on creationism
As a result, Christians attack him for not repeating the same lame talking points.
Besides, the man Enns didn't repeat the talking points to had Holy Spirit epistemology, so he couldn't be as in danger as King's Gambit seems to think he was.
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Originally posted by whag View PostHyperbole or not, you said it's the worst thing one can do. In this case, you crudely applied the context of Jesus time to Enns ministry, which is much more epistemologically based and reflective. Obviously, these are two completely different cultures and times.
You make atheism sound like it's just around the corner for some Christians. I thought Holy Spirit epistemology was the "defeater" in these cases, such as the man who asked Enns about his "certainty."
As Enns himself wrote in Inspiration and Incarnation, sometimes the Bible sets trajectories rather than firm rules. A biblical trajectory that comes up in various locations is the Christian's duty to the person who is wavering, doubting, or struggling in general. Maybe the verse I alluded to (which may have to do with sexual abuse in the first place) wasn't the most accurate, but there are others, such as Jude 1:22-23. It is clear that a Christian has a duty to be helpful when one approaches somebody for help, such as the anguished commenter who was directly trying to address Enns, regardless of whether they are typically an apologist or not."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by jpholding View PostIt's not in the least relevant to this discussion, or to me.
I don't. Thank you for continuing to show how irrelevant your point was to this discussion. Consider taking medication to resolve your problem with "diarrhea of the mouth".
I will build you a 10 foot high set of letters, plated gold, with the following message: I DON'T CARE. You had nothing relevant to say; you only had a typical childish desire to insert projections of your psychological malfunctions. Which is the usual where you are concerned.
Yep, that's just what apologetics needs.
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What's wrong or childish with JP making a cartoon to express his point? How is that different from Jesus speaking in parables to illustrate a point?"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostI have to confess I am not familiar with the concept of Holy Spirit epistemology, but as somebody who spends a fair amount of time reading Enns' blog and his comments, it's fair to say that his blog does draw a number of Christians whose faith is wavering, and also a fair number of ex-Christians.
As Enns himself wrote in Inspiration and Incarnation, sometimes the Bible sets trajectories rather than firm rules. A biblical trajectory that comes up in various locations is the Christian's duty to the person who is wavering, doubting, or struggling in general. Maybe the verse I alluded to (which may have to do with sexual abuse in the first place) wasn't the most accurate, but there are others, such as Jude 1:22-23. It is clear that a Christian has a duty to be helpful when one approaches somebody for help, such as the anguished commenter who was directly trying to address Enns, regardless of whether they are typically an apologist or not.
I'd argue fundamentalism creates many more apostates than Enns refusal to parrot talking points that give people a dangerously false sense of certainty.
The only reason so many struggling Christians come to his site is precisely because Christian education has been so mismanaged. Enns seems to be doing a lot more than others in trying to correct that.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostWhat's wrong or childish with JP making a cartoon to express his point? How is that different from Jesus speaking in parables to illustrate a point?
How many have you seen and which are you favorites? Perhaps I'm wrong, and most of them are great tools.
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Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View PostIf people go against Enns for his position, then why is the same not given to, say, Alister McGrath? Enns is gone after on other grounds. I don't care about someone's position on evolution. I care about how they handle the data they speak about.
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