Immutability

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

No. Just a bit of information for the general public.

And what point were you making with regard to Smith's views on the documentary hypothesis [and the more recent interpretations/variants on it in recent years]?

[rogue06]

[SIZE=12px][FONT=Verdana]No they followed their own religion.

So all those admonishments against following other gods were just filler to be discounted?

[Bill the Cat]

And what point were you making with regard to Smith's views on the documentary hypothesis [and the more recent interpretations/variants on it in recent years]?

Um... that he adhered to it...

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

So all those admonishments against following other gods were just filler to be discounted?

From that remark I am led to draw the following conclusions:

Either that you have not read my reply.

Or that you have read it but you did not understand it.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Um... that he adhered to it...

I would not select the verb adhere to describe what is still [with recent scholarship] a generally accepted academic hypothesis.

[Bill the Cat]

I would not select the verb adhere to describe what is still [with recent scholarship] a generally accepted academic hypothesis.

If I am not mistaken, Smith died a few years ago. Hence adhered.

[rogue06]

From that remark I am led to draw the following conclusions:

Either that you have not read my reply.

Or that you have read it but you did not understand it.

If you contradicted your opening sentence then the onus is on you.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

If you contradicted your opening sentence then the onus is on you.

There was no Judaism in the eleventh century BCE. The early Israelite were at various periods polytheists [and later henotheists]. Judaean monotheism began to emerge in the seventh/sixth centuries BCE.

Or are you one of those who thinks Isaac was a nice Jewish boy?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

If I am not mistaken, Smith died a few years ago. Hence adhered.

You are mistaken. Mark S Smith is currently the Helena Professor of Old Testament Literature and Exegesis at Princeton Theological Seminary.

Here he is in 2017 giving a very interesting talk in Morocco on the topic of Monotheism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvOT6Kj8Yxk

[Bill the Cat]

You are mistaken. Mark S Smith is currently the Helena Professor of Old Testament Literature and Exegesis at Princeton Theological Seminary.

Here he is in 2017 giving a very interesting talk in Morocco on the topic of Monotheism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvOT6Kj8Yxk

Ah. My mistake then...

[Rushing Jaws]

Is God changing on us?

Link

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Does God change? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

In Malachi 3:6, God says that He does not change. This has also been a position that the church has held historically. God is the same from ages to ages. Now I know at the start there are some objections people are going to have. Doesn’t the text say God changed His mind? Didn’t God become a man? Doesn’t that count as a change?

We will get to those.

Right now, I just want to establish immutability, which means that you cannot change. This means that any change whatsoever in the nature of God does not take place. God’s nature will always stay the same.

One reason we can say this is a change is from something else to something else. We are talking about changes that change one’s nature as well, but ultimately, I would say this means no chronological change in God. God is not moving along the timeline from not being a creator to being a creator, for example. God is doing all things eternally and not moving along the timeline.

After all, God does not age. I realize some people are open theists and would disagree with my position and I plan on speaking about God and the future. For now, this is just an articulation of my position as I have said and a defense in the face of criticism will come later.

Some who are theologically inclined are wondering probably if I will say anything about impassibility. That will be a later set of posts as well as I think there are some differences there, but at the same time it is something that I hold to.

If we do hold to simplicity, immutability will also follow. God does not have several parts that can change from one thing to another. Also, if God’s very nature is to be, then that being is not changed by something else. How can what it mean to be really change? Can a limitation be put on God that wasn’t there before?

The ultimate point of much of this is to show that God is not like anything else. He is not a creature. He is not the superhero God like the Greek gods and others who are pretty much really powerful humans with superpowers. It’s also hard to say how some of this is pagan thought since no pagan gods in a polytheistic sense would be immutable or simple.

This also means that God cannot be changed by anything else. That will be either good news or bad news depending on how you see Him. If you see Him as all-loving and all-compassionate, then that is a good thing since He will stay the same and not change. If you see Him as wicked and destructive as His immutability will mean that He will stay that way.

But what about prayer? Don’t we pray to God? What about God changing His mind? What about the incarnation? Again, questions about emotions and God will come along later.

Hopefully, next time we will be able to speak on this topic.

In Christ,
Nick Peters
(And I affirm the virgin birth)

Seems to me that the Incarnation is the least of the problems. Prayer, OTOH..........

[tabibito]

How anyone can perceive of God as unchanging when Logos became flesh, died, and used to be dead, now reigning at the right hand of the Father, is beyond my understanding.

[rogue06]

How anyone can perceive of God as unchanging when Logos became flesh, died, and used to be dead, now reigning at the right hand of the Father, is beyond my understanding.

Didn't Jesus say that this was the way it pretty much has been since even before the Creation? If so, then nothing has changed then.

[tabibito]

Didn't Jesus say that this was the way it pretty much has been since even before the Creation? If so, then nothing has changed then.

John 17:24 is the only verse I can think of that refers to conditions that existed before creation and remaining in effect in Jesus' lifetime. But that doesn't address unchanging beyond love unchanging. Were you thinking of a different verse?