Should Christians Support Israel?

[Apologiaphoenix]

It is both. (Not mutually exclusive).

Let's see. Romans 9....

⁶ It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. ⁷ Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” ⁸ In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. ⁹ For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”

Not all who are descended from Israel are Israel and children of the promise are Abraham's offspring. Jesus told the Jews they were of their father the devil and said if Abraham was their father, they would believe in Him.

Still also waiting to see why repentance is no longer necessary for Israel to receive the blessing.

[Cerebrum123]

I don't see any poor attitude in Nick's responses. One can disagree without being disagreeable.

I have noticed people read attitude into something where there is none. It's not just a text based thing either.

[Christianbookworm]

Text doesn't help. Sometimes I really want to know what the tone was when people were talking to each other in the Bible!

[ReformedApologist]

I do believe in supporting Israel in so far as them having the right to defend themselves. However, in terms of Scripture I believe they like anyone else have rejected Christ as Messiah, and they need the Gospel (Romans 1:16),

[rogue06]

I'm not sure Israel qualifies as an ally, IMO. It is a one-sided relationship really; we give them droves of money (to the tune of over $3 billion a year) and they openly spy on us. Talk about interfering in our elections, Israel certainly does, and it makes sense when you see how much money they get rom the US. They absolutely refuse to compromise on new settlements - even when it makes diplomacy very difficult for us.

But in the bigger picture, I just don't believe in unreciprocated relationships, or ones that cost us much more than it's worth.

They have definitely done their share to try to contain the mad mullahs in Iran and taken the brunt of the retaliation as a result, although one could argue that was as much out of their own self-interest as anything.

Btw, didn't they abandon and dismantle a bunch of settlements after they signed the peace treaty with Egypt? Therefore, it seems that they'll compromise on settlements if they can get in exchange what Hamas and the PLO before them absolutely refuse to grant -- peace.

And how many of our allies do we not have an essentially one-sided relationship with?

[rogue06]

Text doesn't help. Sometimes I really want to know what the tone was when people were talking to each other in the Bible!

The Bible needed emoticons?

[Sparko]

I have noticed people read attitude into something where there is none. It's not just a text based thing either.

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[Ronson]

They have definitely done their share to try to contain the mad mullahs in Iran and taken the brunt of the retaliation as a result, although one could argue that was as much out of their own self-interest as anything.

With Iran declaring it wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, I believe it is self interest that motivates them. Not that I blame them, but they have more to gain than we do in seeing regime change in Iran.

Btw, didn't they abandon and dismantle a bunch of settlements after they signed the peace treaty with Egypt? Therefore, it seems that they'll compromise on settlements if they can get in exchange what Hamas and the PLO before them absolutely refuse to grant -- peace.

IIRC, the dismantled settlements (that were barely begun) were on the Sinai Peninsula, which was turned back over to Egypt. But I recall many US presidents being frustrated over the settlement issue, the West Bank especially, when trying to negotiate peace terms.

And how many of our allies do we not have an essentially one-sided relationship with?

And I dislike those too. If the agreement with these nations is that we pay them to be our friends, perhaps to buy their UN votes or something, then we should end them. We are paying Israel and Egypt a combined $5 billion a year for them not to fight with each other. Since 1980, that's a quarter trillion. Can you imagine what good that money could do here at home?

[Cerebrum123]

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I've had something not too dissimilar happen in person in a discussion.

[Esther]

Still also waiting to see why repentance is no longer necessary for Israel to receive the blessing.

Genesis 17 describes an everlasting covenant God made with Abraham. In this instance, Abraham's part of the covenant was circumcision not repentance. This covenant was broken only if a male was not circumcised. IE nothing to do with obedience or repentance or faith etc.


17 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, I am the Almighty God; walk and live habitually before Me and be perfect (blameless, wholehearted, complete).

² And I will make My covenant (solemn pledge) between Me and you and will multiply you exceedingly.

³ Then Abram fell on his face, and God said to him,

⁴ As for Me, behold, My covenant (solemn pledge) is with you, and you shall be the father of many nations.

⁵ Nor shall your name any longer be Abram [high, exalted father]; but your name shall be Abraham [father of a multitude], for I have made you the father of many nations.

⁶ And I will make you exceedingly fruitful and I will make nations of you, and ^[a]kings will come from you.

⁷ And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting, solemn pledge, to be a God to you and to your posterity after you.

⁸ And I will give to you and to your posterity after you the land in which you are a stranger [going from place to place], all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

⁹ And God said to Abraham, As for you, you shall therefore keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations.

¹⁰ This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your posterity after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised.

¹¹ And you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be a token or sign of the covenant (the promise or pledge) between Me and you.

¹² He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male throughout your generations, whether born in [your] house or bought with [your] money from any foreigner not of your offspring.

¹³ He that is born in your house and he that is bought with your money must be circumcised; and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

¹⁴ And the male who is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.

[Apologiaphoenix]

Genesis 17 describes an everlasting covenant God made with Abraham. In this instance, Abraham's part of the covenant was circumcision not repentance. This covenant was broken only if a male was not circumcised. IE nothing to do with obedience or repentance or faith etc.


17 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, I am the Almighty God; walk and live habitually before Me and be perfect (blameless, wholehearted, complete).

² And I will make My covenant (solemn pledge) between Me and you and will multiply you exceedingly.

³ Then Abram fell on his face, and God said to him,

⁴ As for Me, behold, My covenant (solemn pledge) is with you, and you shall be the father of many nations.

⁵ Nor shall your name any longer be Abram [high, exalted father]; but your name shall be Abraham [father of a multitude], for I have made you the father of many nations.

⁶ And I will make you exceedingly fruitful and I will make nations of you, and ^[a]kings will come from you.

⁷ And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting, solemn pledge, to be a God to you and to your posterity after you.

⁸ And I will give to you and to your posterity after you the land in which you are a stranger [going from place to place], all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

⁹ And God said to Abraham, As for you, you shall therefore keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations.

¹⁰ This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your posterity after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised.

¹¹ And you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be a token or sign of the covenant (the promise or pledge) between Me and you.

¹² He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male throughout your generations, whether born in [your] house or bought with [your] money from any foreigner not of your offspring.

¹³ He that is born in your house and he that is bought with your money must be circumcised; and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

¹⁴ And the male who is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.

First off, the word everlasting is not the same as eternal. It can refer to a long duration.

Now when we get to Deuteronomy, it is specifically a covenant treaty laying out the requirements on both sides. Israel gives loyalty to YHWH and keeps His law and worships Him exclusively and He protects and blesses them. However, covenants like that also required stipulations. If Israel doesn't keep their side, this is what God does. Eventually, He expels them from the land. After that, He tells them that when they are in a foreign land, in order to repossess the land, they must repent and turn to Him.

Did He really mean that or not?

Did He really say "If you repent, then we will resume the covenant relationship?"

Or did He mean "You can do whatever you want and I will bless you and protect you."?

Jewish history would indicate based on the exile that He meant the former.

[Starlight]

I know I'm weird, but I don't support Israel so much because they are "God's Chosen People", but because they are the only democracy in that region

The Palestinians have a democracy too. Remember when Hillary Clinton regretted not rigging their democratic elections?

they live in the land Christ walked and upon which so many events of the Bible occurred.

So do the Palestinians. Only more so. Jesus is regarded as sacred by Islam in a way he isn't in Judaism. Muslims regard Jerusalem as a sacred site to their religion because of Jesus.

So "living in the land Christ walked" is sacred to Palestinian Muslims but not Jews. Jews regard the land as special to them due to their relationship with it in the OT, but not at all due to Jesus like the Muslims do.

[rogue06]

The Palestinians have a democracy too. Remember when Hillary Clinton regretted not rigging their democratic elections?

Which ironically, are the last elections that took place (2006), although they keep promising another one. In February they promised one this month.

Hard to have a democracy when those in power keep cancelling elections.

[Starlight]

Which ironically, are the last elections that took place (2006), although they keep promising another one. In February they promised one this month.

They had local elections in 2012 and 2017. As you note, Presidential elections were scheduled for this month until the outbreak of the current crisis.

[rogue06]

They had local elections in 2012 and 2017. As you note, Presidential elections were scheduled for this month until the outbreak of the current crisis.

IIRC, presidential elections have been scheduled several times in the last 15 years but they always found a reason to postpone them each and every time.

If you can't vote there is no democracy.