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Notice – The ministries featured in this section of TheologyWeb are guests of this site and in some cases not bargaining for the rough and tumble world of debate forums, though sometimes they are. Additionally, this area is frequented and highlighted for guests who also very often are not acclimated to debate fora. As such, the rules of conduct here will be more strict than in the general forum. This will be something within the discretion of the Moderators and the Ministry Representative, but we simply ask that you conduct yourselves in a manner considerate of the fact that these ministries are our invited guests. You can always feel free to start a related thread in general forum without such extra restrictions. Thank you.

Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.

We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.

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Autism Awareness Month Introduction

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    You are the group OWNER, nick. You have always been part of it.
    And like I said, I hardly ever use Steam. I had completely forgotten it.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post

      And like I said, I hardly ever use Steam. I had completely forgotten it.

      Comment


      • #18
        Do I know you?

        Link

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        How do we react around strangers? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

        Often times, those of us on the Autism spectrum are considered to be rude. Of course, we can be rude, but sometimes when we are called rude, we are not at all intending to be rude. It is just a case of how we don’t know for sure how to act.

        Have you ever seen a scene from The Good Doctor where the autistic surgeon on there has all these drawings and images going on in his head? For myself personally, I can have the same kind of phenomenon. When a stranger comes up to me and tries to talk to me, my mind immediately goes to the question of what kind of social protocol is it that I am supposed to follow here.

        Usually, that means staying quiet as much as possible. I will have more to say on being quiet in another blog post. You can expect that in many cases, I will communicate non-verbally when possible.

        This can also happen online. Generally as a rule, if you message me on Facebook and I don’t know you and you’re just asking the general questions like “How are you?” (I hate that question with a passion as a casual greeting and I plan on writing on that later) I will not answer you. If I go somewhere and someone is extraverted around me, it is frightening. If you are the same way online, that is also frightening.

        So if that’s the case, how do you get to know someone on the spectrum?

        Usually, you have to know what really gets us excited and talk about that. You could come up to me and talk about apologetics, video games, certain TV shows, etc. If you can demonstrate we have a common interest, I am much more likely to communicate.

        In a way, picture it like if you were in a situation where someone came up to you who you thought could be a threat. You could have a multiplicity of scenarios going on in your head. It could include a physical response, running, playing casual, grabbing an item nearby to use as a weapon, pressing an emergency alert button on your phone, etc.

        For me, this is similar to what I go through every time I meet someone I don’t know. Now in some situations, it could be more controlled. If I have been at a church and just given a talk and people come up to me after with questions, it is an environment where I know what I can expect and it is much easier. The casual conversation setting is the one that I dread.

        Keep this in mind when you encounter someone on the spectrum. If someone starts acting in a similar way around you you don’t know, they could be on the spectrum. Again, I also want to stress that this might not be the same with everyone, but it is certainly my experience.

        Next week, we will hopefully look at more of the world of Autism.

        In Christ,
        Nick Peters
        (And I affirm the virgin birth)
        Support my Patreon here.

        Comment


        • #19
          Greetings!

          Link

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          How do I respond when you approach? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

          Last time, I wrote about not knowing people so when they come up to talk to me, I don’t really know what to expect. Immediately, my mind starts racing with all kinds of social rules as I try to figure out what I should or shouldn’t do. I can relate to Sheldon Cooper on The Big Bang Theory as he tries to follow rules of social protocol. “I ask you how you are every morning even though I don’t really care.”

          Being somewhat in the public eye, it can be concerning if someone knows me and I don’t know them. I have reached the point where I now can manage to ask someone to refresh my memory. If I have to wear a name tag, that makes it even more difficult on me as I am thinking, “Do you know my name because you can read or because you really know me?”

          One of the worst parts of a greeting in my world is when someone asks the question that I hate so much and dread getting every time. “How are you?” Let’s suppose I’m not doing good that time. Do I want a question to remind me of that? Perhaps I had been getting in a better mood and someone asks something that I naturally will look internally with and return to a depressive state.

          This question is so bad to me that nowadays, I choose to remain absolutely silent to it. I also think it’s really a fake question because I suspect the majority of people who ask it don’t even really care. I remember being at my job one day and bending down to put stuff in my locker when a manager walked by and asked “How are you?” and just kept walking before I could say anything. My mind is immediately thinking, “If you don’t really care, don’t really ask.”

          The exception to this is if I know the question is about a specific situation. Some of my friends know I’m going through a rather strange period of my life right now and when one of them calls and asks “How are you doing?” I know exactly what they’re talking about and I tell them.

          What greeting would I prefer? A simple “Hi” or “Hello” works just fine. Now keep in mind being on the spectrum, I might not say hi back. I might smile or nod or something nonverbal. I plan on getting into nonverbal communication before too long, but it is one way I do respond to communication, especially if I am nervous to some extent around the person.

          If someone doesn’t respond to your greeting as you respect, sure, there’s a chance they’re rude, but maybe they’re not. Maybe they’re on the spectrum and don’t know what to say and could be intimidated to some extent. Please keep this in mind. Also, if you’re a church greeter and you know someone is on the spectrum, it could be good to find out how they would prefer you interact with them in that capacity if at all.

          In Christ,
          Nick Peters
          (And I affirm the virgin birth)
          Support my Patreon here.

          Comment


          • #20
            Am I the only one that when they read the title keeps seeing Austin Awareness Month?

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #21
              What if you can't say anything?

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              How do we communicate? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

              There’s an old joke where you tell someone that a deaf and dumb man goes into a hardware store. He makes a fist and pounds the counter. The guy in charge brings him a hammer. The man shakes his head and then takes his fist and hits the top with his other fist. He gets brought some nails. He nods in thanks and leaves. Next, a blind man comes in wanting a pair of scissors. How does he ask for them?

              At this point, some people do a motion with their fingers to indicate scissors.

              The answer is, “No. He uses his voice and asks for it.”

              The question might be different if the blind man was on the spectrum.

              There are some people on the spectrum that are incredibly non-verbal. They literally never speak. Some exceptions can occur such as if they are alone with animals or they can type if they are on a computer, but generally, they don’t speak.

              I am not one of those, but often I would prefer to not speak if that is possible. This isn’t just around strangers. I can do this around my own family as well. Now there are times when actions do speak louder than words, but there are times when they don’t and you need words to communicate.

              This can lead to problems for me sometimes. Let’s suppose I am in the checkout line at the grocery store. I want to indicate to the person in front of me to please get a divider so I can start putting up my groceries or at least move their stuff forward to give me room. This can be a problem as they usually have their back turned to me watching what’s going on in front of them.

              Somehow, a mental block comes up in front of me that practically renders me unable to speak. It is exceptionally frustrating. I really don’t know how else to explain it. Picture a time in your life when you are paralyzed with fear and might have known you needed to do something mentally and yet you couldn’t will yourself to move. That is a similar situation.

              When I get up there to check out, I will normally prefer not speaking. It is not that I desire to be rude at all. It’s just I prefer to not have to speak if I don’t want to. This will also get us into something in another post that I can’t stand on the spectrum, small talk. I’ve already stated that I hate the question “How are you?” which usually starts such conversations.

              Do I know a solution to this? No. I am also not justifying it. I am just saying it is what it is. If you meet someone who seems to be unusually quiet, please consider they may be on the spectrum.

              In Christ,
              Nick Peters
              (And I affirm the virgin birth)
              Support my Patreon here.

              Comment


              • #22
                Small talk. Just don't.

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                What makes conversation so difficult? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

                One of the rules you notice of social etiquette is everyone is supposed to engage in conversation about nothing in particular, such as talking about weather or things of that sort. In essence, you are supposed to talk about things you don’t care about just to make conversation. For someone on the spectrum, this is something that I can’t stand.

                Remember Joe Friday? One of the statements he was famous for was “Just the facts.” That’s the way I find I think on the spectrum. I just want to discuss the subject data. Time is valuable and I want to use it the best I can in conversation. Having small talk is just often seen as entirely fake.

                If anything, on the spectrum, it will leave me suspicious of you. Why are you asking all these personal questions? What are you trying to find out? You really become much more of a threat to me when you engage in small talk as I don’t know where you’re going. If you engage in real conversation about real matters, I know what we’re talking about and that’s fine.

                Small talk is something that to someone like myself serves no real purpose. It’s really a show. Now there could be some exception if I meet someone who I already know well and we can just chit-chat, but if I don’t know you, it’s something that does produce anxiety.

                This also applies to Facebook and I know others not on the spectrum who have the same kind of rule. If I accept your friend request and you immediately message me with a lot of small talk, do not expect me to engage with you. I need to know who you are and what you are messaging me about before I will respond to you.

                The best way to talk to someone on the spectrum usually is to find out what they’re interested in and talk about that. It might take talking to someone outside of them to find out, like a friend or family member, but if you find out that person will likely be more open to talking to you. If you come up to us engaging in small talk, it’s like you’re prying us for information and we don’t know where you’re going with it.

                Along those lines, I do have plans to write something about how we approach our interests as well. That’s another important aspect to keep in mind when talking to someone on the spectrum. Keep in mind also, we don’t care for fake people. If you’re not really interested, don’t act like you are.

                So the tip for today? Avoid small talk. Just get to the point of the conversation. I don’t even like to have small talk with my own family. It’s even worse with a stranger.

                In Christ,
                Nick Peters
                (And I affirm the virgin birth)
                Support my Patreon here.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Are most people on the spectrum introverts? Because introverts also don't care for small talk.
                  If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                    Are most people on the spectrum introverts? Because introverts also don't care for small talk.
                    I suspect so.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I for one am appreciating this behind-the-scenes view of the internal thought processes of people on the spectrum. It is rare that those who are one of the "tribe" can express so vividly the reasoning behind the actions (or non-actions). Keep it up, Nick. Be the voice for your people. Communication always helps with understanding, which is what my grandson fervently wishes for.
                      Last edited by 3 Resurrections; 04-07-2021, 02:42 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        What do we care about?

                        Link

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                        How do you get someone interested in something? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

                        Generally, I have heard it said on the spectrum we approach topics in two ways. We either have no interest in them whatsoever, or we have full-blown obsession. If I get into something, I really get into it, and if I don’t care, then I just don’t care.

                        I’m thinking about this today since yesterday a group on Facebook I’m in had a mother asking how to get her son interested in history. I recommended to try to connect it with something else that he does enjoy. For example, even if I didn’t care for history, I think as a gamer I would very much enjoy Gaming Historian to learn about the history of some of my favorite video games.

                        There are a number of TV shows that my Dad started watching before I did. Three that come to mind immediately are the Batman series with Adam West, Cheers, and Smallville. Today, I know more about each of those shows than he does. He grew up watching Batman and I’m the one that can tell him most everything about every episode. I can quote various scenes from Cheers and as for Smallville, let’s just say there was a time in my life when I had every episode title memorized in order, and there were over 200 of them. Sure, they all had one word in them, but still….

                        This is one reason that if you want to get into the world of someone on the spectrum, it’s always good to find out what they care about. At the same time, if you’re not really interested in something, don’t fake it. We don’t like fake people. If you don’t really like something like Smallville, don’t act like you do around me.

                        This also means when it does come to something like gaming, that generally I will try to do the best that I can. It’s part of the obsessive thinking. This is also a great help to me in apologetics as once again, I want to do the best that I can.

                        The downside is sometimes a person can get tunnel vision with this. If we’re in conversation, we can get super excited about something not realizing that people around us just don’t care. I have to watch myself in a Bible study group. I can easily become dominant in a setting like this because I have so much and I think it just has to be shared.

                        So if you meet someone on the spectrum and you get them talking about their interests, expect to hear all about them. If you think the communication needs to be corrected, be gentle. The last thing you want to do is really silence someone on the spectrum or tell them their interests don’t matter.

                        In Christ,
                        Nick Peters
                        (And I affirm the virgin birth)
                        Support my Patreon here.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I'm not on the spectrum, but I do have some characteristics. It's Charge Syndrome.
                          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                            I'm not on the spectrum, but I do have some characteristics. It's Charge Syndrome.
                            Yeah, there are a lot of conditions with some overlap with Autism. The high amount of comorbid conditions with Autism muddies the waters even more.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              is it just a little touch?

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                              Should this be a hands-onhttps://www.deeperwatersapologetics.com/?p=12579 situation? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

                              It might sound like a shock to you, but one of my love languages I think is touch. However, that only really applies in a romantic relationship. If it is any other kind of relationship, touch is intrusive and I don’t really care for it. I need to know someone before I can feel comfortable with their touch.

                              Touch is passing a boundary. It is becoming more real than before and it is an uncomfortable sensation at times, especially if you’re not expecting it. If someone wants to pray for me in a church service and suddenly puts their hand on my shoulder even, I am not thinking about the prayer but instead internally saying “Please move your hand. Please move your hand. Please move your hand.”

                              This doesn’t apply to just strangers. With my own family, I can tend to accept it, but it’s not my favorite thing. If my mother didn’t think I had done a good job shaving in the morning and wanted to show me where and got her finger and started touching specific parts of my face, I would recoil every time.

                              Another kind of touch I hate and this no one gets to do is to take off my glasses from me. Again, I can’t explain why that is, but if someone takes off my glasses or puts them on me, it is highly intrusive. If I went to a doctor and he needed to look into my eyes, I wouldn’t let him take my glasses off. I would do it myself.

                              In a romantic relationship, I seem to connect that touch to love a lot easier and I can enjoy that kind of touch. That kind of touch is also in its own way, exclusive. No one else gets to give touches like that to me.

                              This is coming from someone who is high-functioning. Now picture it coming from someone who is not like that. How will they react to a touch?

                              Let’s take this over to a church service. As much as I think Corona is overblown, I am certainly appreciative of one aspect. Greeting time has gone out the window. No one is coming over to shake my hand that I don’t know. That was always the part of the service I liked the least.

                              If you’re dealing with someone on the spectrum, be very careful about touch. Actually, that’s a good piece of advice for anyone since there are plenty of people not on the spectrum who are not crazy about touches from people they don’t know. Just because they allow you to touch them doesn’t mean that they are liking it. If you do get to the point of touch however and it is welcomed, then you have crossed a huge boundary and you can personally celebrate that.

                              In Christ,
                              Nick Peters
                              (And I affirm the virgin birth)
                              Support my Patreon here.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                FINALLY. Someone who totally gets the "ick" factor of "greeting time" at church! And is brave enough to write it out loud. In 16 years of membership at a very warm, loving Southern Baptist church, I never overcame the very awkward feeling of being forced into this rite of fellowship. Doing it always felt a bit artificial and very intrusive. I know Paul said to "greet one another with a holy kiss", but Paul must not have known anyone on the autistic spectrum.

                                On the other hand, when my autistic grandson gives me an impulsive, spontaneous hug, I KNOW this is coming from a place across that "huge boundary" where he is finally comfortable with expressing his honest feelings. That kind of touch I can really celebrate. He and I talked a bit on Easter Sunday while he was alone in the kitchen away from the whole extended family party gathered around the table playing games in the DR. I told him that he and I are exactly alike about party celebrations - we like to hang around on the fringes just watching, but don't want to be too close to the party action. We are content just seeing everybody else having a good time. He was rather surprised and pleased, because he said he thought he was the only one who ever felt like that. THAT'S when I got a hug from him and some rare eye contact. It's one thing that autistic people share with the rest of mankind. They want to be understood.

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