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Colorado Shooting and Mental Illness

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  • Colorado Shooting and Mental Illness

    Is it right to always jump to mental illness?

    Link

    --------

    What is the main culprit? Let’s plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

    Another shooting has taken place and I know the media went one way immediately and jumped to race. Well, that didn’t age well. While conservatives like myself disagree with them on that, too many times, conservatives will also say the other culprit that exists in these cases in their minds along with the media and that is mental illness.

    I realize that the family is saying that the shooter (Let’s not mention his name) was mentally ill. They could be right, but that is not an assessment to be made lightly. Many of us have a problem, and rightly so, when someone claims to be an internet doctor where they diagnose themselves going on Web M.D. After all, you look up symptoms for a common cold and walk away thinking you have terminal cancer.

    The same applies to mental illness. Diagnosing yourself is not recommended. One is supposed to go see a therapist or trained psychiatrist, someone professional, to get a diagnosis. It’s also not wise to diagnose someone from a distance. These are not light claims.

    Yet whenever a shooting like this takes place, mental illness is brought up immediately. Why? Well, surely someone who would do a great evil like this is mentally ill. No one in their right mind would do this.

    Why not?

    People who have no mental illness do things that are wrong everyday. Sure, not to the level of a mass shooting, but they do evil and some do so with a clear conscience. I consider abortion a great evil and people go and get one in their right minds because they buy into the idea that they are not killing a human person.

    Not only that, but we speak of mental illness as if it were a clear term all throughout. It’s not. Mental illness is a wide umbrella that contains many conditions under it. Consider if I said hospitals are for people who are sick. Okay. That doesn’t mean you need to go to the ER for the common cold despite that being a sickness. It’s more for people who have serious conditions like cancer or who need to do some serious operation.

    The same with mental illness. Many people with mental illnesses would not do a great evil like this just like many regular people wouldn’t. Technically, I can be said to have a mental illness. Sure. I can struggle with anger many times and have my own evil I struggle with, but I am not a mass murderer.

    So why do we do this? Because I don’t think we want to face the fact that people really can do great evil and do it in their right minds. That’s hard on all of us. You want to know in reality who does have the potential to be the next mass shooter?

    Every single one of us.

    None of us is immune to evil. Sure, some are more likely than others, but if we look at who committed the greatest evils in the past, it’s been perfectly ordinary people. Consider the Milgram experiments. Perfectly ordinary people were willing to give someone what they thought was 450 volts.

    Perfectly. Ordinary. People.

    Think about that. You could say that wouldn’t be you, but isn’t that what most people who did this in the experiments would have said? Now you could say all of those were the ones with mental illness, but that would be begging the question.

    I really suspect none of us want to face the evil that is within us. How many people have had to go to therapy suddenly because just one day, they uncovered something in their past and it gave them extremely strong emotions at the time that were difficult to handle? All of us who are ordinary people have been greatly hurt at some time in the past and have to deal with it.

    Let’s suppose I meet two men in my work in ministry in the church. Both of them want to avoid getting into sexual sin. One says that he is really strong against pornography and won’t fall into it. The other one is worried sick that he will. I am more concerned about the former one. My thinking is that the moment you think you cannot give in to a sin, you are far closer to giving in to it than you think.

    The media will continue to make race an issue, but as one on the spectrum, I want to deal with mental illness here instead. People who are mentally ill are not automatically evil. They, or rather we, need some help at times just like everyone else does. We have our struggles. We are your neighbors. We go to church with you, shop with you, play games with you, marry you, and go out to eat with you.

    We’re not all mass shooters just like not all normal people aren’t mass shooters. However, we all of us alike have the capacity of great evil in us. Let’s all confront that together instead of just mentioning one group specifically.

    In Christ,
    Nick Peters
    (And I affirm the virgin birth)
    Support my Patreon here.

  • #2
    There are degrees of mental illness and variations on how people deal with it. If someone is delusional, for example, and hears voices telling him to kill people, or being paranoid that people are trying to kill him so he kills them first, that is much different from someone with Asperger's who just has trouble with social situations.

    Sure everyone is susceptible to just being evil, but certainly having mental illness can be a contributing factor in what we would call evil actions.

    I would not describe someone who does have a mental illness that drives them to commit evil acts as being necessarily an evil person. They are probably not morally culpable. They are ill.


    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      There are degrees of mental illness and variations on how people deal with it. If someone is delusional, for example, and hears voices telling him to kill people, or being paranoid that people are trying to kill him so he kills them first, that is much different from someone with Asperger's who just has trouble with social situations.

      Sure everyone is susceptible to just being evil, but certainly having mental illness can be a contributing factor in what we would call evil actions.

      I would not describe someone who does have a mental illness that drives them to commit evil acts as being necessarily an evil person. They are probably not morally culpable. They are ill.
      The differences are apparent but folks worry about a slippery slope and this being used as a political ploy to confiscate guns from a huge portion of the citizenry.

      My oldest cousin's wife's brother (sorry for sounding like a line from either Spaceballs or Conan the Destroyer ) had his hunting rifles seized because nearly 20 years earlier he was treated for depression after his daughter was killed by a drunk driver the same week one of his parents was diagnosed with inoperable cancer AND was turned down for a promotion/raise that was supposedly a done deal). When he was getting a divorce his soon to be ex told the judge he had once been treated for depression so the judge ordered that the rifles be seized.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        The differences are apparent but folks worry about a slippery slope and this being used as a political ploy to confiscate guns from a huge portion of the citizenry.

        My oldest cousin's wife's brother (sorry for sounding like a line from either Spaceballs or Conan the Destroyer ) had his hunting rifles seized because nearly 20 years earlier he was treated for depression after his daughter was killed by a drunk driver the same week one of his parents was diagnosed with inoperable cancer AND was turned down for a promotion/raise that was supposedly a done deal). When he was getting a divorce his soon to be ex told the judge he had once been treated for depression so the judge ordered that the rifles be seized.
        That's a great way to discourage people from seeking help.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          The differences are apparent but folks worry about a slippery slope and this being used as a political ploy to confiscate guns from a huge portion of the citizenry.

          My oldest cousin's wife's brother (sorry for sounding like a line from either Spaceballs or Conan the Destroyer ) had his hunting rifles seized because nearly 20 years earlier he was treated for depression after his daughter was killed by a drunk driver the same week one of his parents was diagnosed with inoperable cancer AND was turned down for a promotion/raise that was supposedly a done deal). When he was getting a divorce his soon to be ex told the judge he had once been treated for depression so the judge ordered that the rifles be seized.
          Yup. That's a real worry, overreaching government using excuses to grab guns.

          I don't think it is constitutional to keep guns away from anyone, mentally ill or not. The first amendment doesn't mention any conditions.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post


            I don't think it is constitutional to keep guns away from anyone, mentally ill or not. The first amendment doesn't mention any conditions.
            What about people in prison?
            Last edited by KingsGambit; 03-26-2021, 01:14 PM.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

              What about people in prison?
              While they're in prison, they're also deprived of driving automobiles, using cellphones (though that's so easily defeated), and all kinds of other things, so, yeah - while in prison they don't have access to guns.

              Although!!!!! In the "walls unit" in Huntsville, Texas, there's a prison museum of all the guns that have been confiscated from inmates, either smuggled in, manufactured while in prison, devised as "zip guns", even an infamous bar of soap carved into the shape of a snub-nosed .38 that looked so real, a convict was actually able to escape by threatening to shoot a couple guards.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                While they're in prison, they're also deprived of driving automobiles, using cellphones (though that's so easily defeated), and all kinds of other things, so, yeah - while in prison they don't have access to guns.

                Although!!!!! In the "walls unit" in Huntsville, Texas, there's a prison museum of all the guns that have been confiscated from inmates, either smuggled in, manufactured while in prison, devised as "zip guns", even an infamous bar of soap carved into the shape of a snub-nosed .38 that looked so real, a convict was actually able to escape by threatening to shoot a couple guards.
                FBI magazine (don't know if it's still around) would have at the back (and occasionally on the back cover) a feature showing various items (one per month) confiscated during arrests and from those already in custody. My goodness some of those folks were creative. And I'm not just talking about weapons but clever improvised gear for committing a wide assortment of crimes

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  FBI magazine (don't know if it's still around) would have at the back (and occasionally on the back cover) a feature showing various items (one per month) confiscated during arrests and from those already in custody. My goodness some of those folks were creative. And I'm not just talking about weapons but clever improvised gear for committing a wide assortment of crimes
                  One of the most common is tattoo devices. Yeah, it's amazing what they can create given enough time and motivation.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

                    What about people in prison?
                    Well while he can constitutionally own a firearm, he can't keep it in a prison.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                      Well while he can constitutionally own a firearm, he can't keep it in a prison.
                      Convicted felons cannot legally own firearms.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        Convicted felons cannot legally own firearms.
                        Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that, because, for example, a convicted felon in Texas can apply to own a handgun after 5 years of finalizing his term of imprisonment, but that's STATE law, and federal law trumps state law on this, with the exception that this particular federal law allows state law to prevail, so.... yes and no and maybe but probably not.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                          Convicted felons cannot legally own firearms.
                          I don't think that is actually constitutional though. That is what I was arguing. Constitutionally, there shouldn't be ANY gun control laws. No permits, no restrictions. All of that is an abridgement of our right to bear arms.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                            I don't think that is actually constitutional though. That is what I was arguing. Constitutionally, there shouldn't be ANY gun control laws. No permits, no restrictions. All of that is an abridgement of our right to bear arms.
                            OK, so there's the general belief that, since the Constitution does not restrict felons from having guns, it's "constitutional" that they can.
                            Federal and state courts, however, have upheld the laws against felons owning guns, and, to my knowledge, SCOTUS has never ruled against the restrictions.

                            So, while it's fair to say it "isn't constitutional" to keep felons from owning guns, it's not "unconstitutional" for the federal and state governments to maintain that restriction.

                            I think.

                            MEANWHILE, like G Gordon Liddy often said --- "since I'm a convicted felon, I don't own any guns, but my wife has a small arsenal".
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                              One of the most common is tattoo devices. Yeah, it's amazing what they can create given enough time and motivation.
                              A couple of electric tattoo guns and how to open high security screws with a zipper

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment

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