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When did Herod the Great die?

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  • When did Herod the Great die?

    I posted this topic on the Facebook page and I hope to get more opinions here on this topic.
    Andrew Steinmann has argued (back in 2009) that Herod the Great did not die in 4 B.C.E. as is traditionally thought but about 1 B.C.E. His paper can be found here.
    http://historiantigua.cl/wp-content/...reat_Reign.pdf

    What are your thoughts about this paper. Do you think that the arguments are stronger for the 4 B.C.E. position or for the 1 B.C.E. position?
    -The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
    Sir James Jeans

    -This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
    Sir Isaac Newton

  • #2
    "When did Herod the Great die?"

    On his Date of Death. You're welcome!





















































    I'll leave your serious thread alone now...

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View Post
      Do you think that the arguments are stronger for the 4 B.C.E. position or for the 1 B.C.E. position?
      With one exception, the chronology given at the end of seems reasonable on the basis of the evidence presented.
      The one exception is the date given for the birth of Jesus. Nothing in the article supports that (or any particular) date as viable, and the Bible doesn't point to Herod's death being within a year or so of Jesus' birth.
      sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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      • #4
        Josephus wrote:

        "Now it happened, that during the time of the high priesthood of this Matthias, there was another person made high priest for a single day, that very day which the Jews observed as a fast. The occasion was this: This Matthias the high priest, on the night before that day when the fast was to be celebrated, seemed, in a dream, to have conversation with his wife; and because he could not officiate himself on that account, Joseph, the son of Ellemus, his kinsman, assisted him in that sacred office. But Herod deprived this Matthias of the high priesthood, and burnt the other Matthias, who had raised the sedition, with his companions, alive. And that very night there was an eclipse of the moon" (Antiquities, xvii.6.4, tr. by William Whiston.)

        The high priest was free to serve in a number of functions. He could replace the priest performing the burning of incense in the sanctuary if he wished. He could take part in the twice-daily tamid. He could offer the burnt sacrifices and the peace offerings. He could hold the position of leader of the Great Sanhedrin in Jerusalem. He could use the urim and thummim of his garments in order to discern the will of God. But his foremost function deals with Yom Kippur, the day of atonement. He alone would sacrifice one goat and send the other goat, the scapegoat, into the wilderness. He alone would sacrifice the bull for the atonement of himself and his household. He alone would enter the holy of holies and sprinkle the blood of the bull on the mercy seat.
        But on the night before he was to perform his sacred priestly duties, Matthias the high priest had a nocturnal emission, rendering him unclean and disqualified from performing his services as high priest. It was necessary for Herod to assign Joseph, the son of Ellemus to take his place the following day. Josephus refers to that day as “that day when the fast was to be celebrated”. This could only refer to Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. The last Yom Kippur prior to the Passover of 4 BC was on September 13, 5 BC. There was a total lunar eclipse two days later, on the night of September 15-16. Totality lasted 99 minutes, beginning around midnight, while the moon was nearly directly overhead. This took place six months before Passover of 4 BC, more than enough time for the events relating to his lengthy funeral procession to take place.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Faber View Post
          Josephus wrote:

          "Now it happened, that during the time of the high priesthood of this Matthias, there was another person made high priest for a single day, that very day which the Jews observed as a fast. The occasion was this: This Matthias the high priest, on the night before that day when the fast was to be celebrated, seemed, in a dream, to have conversation with his wife; and because he could not officiate himself on that account, Joseph, the son of Ellemus, his kinsman, assisted him in that sacred office. But Herod deprived this Matthias of the high priesthood, and burnt the other Matthias, who had raised the sedition, with his companions, alive. And that very night there was an eclipse of the moon" (Antiquities, xvii.6.4, tr. by William Whiston.)

          The high priest was free to serve in a number of functions. He could replace the priest performing the burning of incense in the sanctuary if he wished. He could take part in the twice-daily tamid. He could offer the burnt sacrifices and the peace offerings. He could hold the position of leader of the Great Sanhedrin in Jerusalem. He could use the urim and thummim of his garments in order to discern the will of God. But his foremost function deals with Yom Kippur, the day of atonement. He alone would sacrifice one goat and send the other goat, the scapegoat, into the wilderness. He alone would sacrifice the bull for the atonement of himself and his household. He alone would enter the holy of holies and sprinkle the blood of the bull on the mercy seat.
          But on the night before he was to perform his sacred priestly duties, Matthias the high priest had a nocturnal emission, rendering him unclean and disqualified from performing his services as high priest. It was necessary for Herod to assign Joseph, the son of Ellemus to take his place the following day. Josephus refers to that day as “that day when the fast was to be celebrated”. This could only refer to Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. The last Yom Kippur prior to the Passover of 4 BC was on September 13, 5 BC. There was a total lunar eclipse two days later, on the night of September 15-16. Totality lasted 99 minutes, beginning around midnight, while the moon was nearly directly overhead. This took place six months before Passover of 4 BC, more than enough time for the events relating to his lengthy funeral procession to take place.
          Doesn't that seem a bit excessive?
          -The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
          Sir James Jeans

          -This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
          Sir Isaac Newton

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