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Noah: Is this a good movie? Is it good ancient history?

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  • #76
    Rob: Okay, cool.

    John: Thanks!
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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    • #77
      Originally posted by robrecht View Post
      Thanks, John. There's no question that the movie offers a subversive reading of Genesis based on extra-biblical texts. I would not recommend it to anyone who does not expect this and is not prepared for this.
      Just watched the film today. Didn't catch the serpent skin/Teffilin connection, but yeah, that's pretty dern subversive. In the end, I had mixed reviews about the film. There were some elements I loved, and others I hated. Things I really liked included the epic soundtrack, the fantastic acting by both Jennifer Connelly, and Emma Watson. I also thought the subplot with Noah and the grandchildren interesting, especially in how it got us to Noah's post-deluge predicament. Things I hated about the film was that, based on the commercials, its a bait-and-switch. I don't know if that's Aronofsky's idea, or the film's marketers, but I found that really underhanded. People are going in expecting a traditional, or relatively traditional, historical retelling of a well beloved and sacred narrative, and are instead getting a sort of anachronistic, sci-fi/fantasy-ish, humanist fable, that screams at you "DON'T TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY, BECAUSE I SURE AS HECK DON'T". One of the scenes that I thought exemplified this bait-and-switch tactic was in the trailer where we see Tubal-Cain telling Noah that he's all alone, and Noah replies "I'm Not Alone". A powerful scene that implies that Noah is referring to God the Creator, but...when we watch the movie we see that that's not who he's actually referring to.

      This film isn't like any of Aronofsky's previous works with the exception, maybe, of The Fountain. IF you don't know your Book of Enoch, or the Apocrypha, the Talmud, and Jewish mysticism (are the Watcher's stone nature supposed to be based on Kabbalistic notions of Golems?), then maybe you won't be too thrown from the beginning, but the audience I was watching the film with guffawed big time 20 minutes in. Somewhere after the half-way point it begins to resemble more of the traditional narrative (sort of), but by that point you've lost a good portion of the audience base.

      I didn't hate the film. I just feel like its an opportunity wasted. I was never bored so there IS that, but the feeling I got, that the film was ultimately a bait-and-switch was condescending to its intended audience.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
        Depends on who you're asking - they're either evul Creationists or the vanguard of creation science. My personal opinion is that both views are overblown and if we aren't actually discussing evolution, it's a moot point.

        Am I the only one that finds the gnostic theory far more important than whether or not AIG likes the thing?
        Why is what AIG thinks important?
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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        • #79
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          Why is what AIG thinks important?
          Beats me - ask Cath, she brought it up.
          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
            Beats me - ask Cath, she brought it up.
            Actually, I think I may have brought it up first (#16), but only because I did not want anyone to get the wrong idea about this movie.
            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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            • #81
              Originally posted by robrecht View Post
              Actually, I think I may have brought it up first (#16), but only because I did not want anyone to get the wrong idea about this movie.
              Okay....


              Why?
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

              Quill Sword

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                Okay....

                Why?
                Because I did not want someone to go see this movie thinking that it gave a strictly biblical account of Noah and then be disappointed and try to burn me at the stake.
                βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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                • #83
                  Why?

















































                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Quill Sword

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Because I have a family to support.
                    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Weenie.



















































                      FYI: the question was actually 'why did you bring up AIG...
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                      Quill Sword

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        Weenie.



















































                        FYI: the question was actually 'why did you bring up AIG...
                        Because one type of person who might be disappointed by this movie and want to burn me at the stake would probably heed the opinion of AiG. I will refrain from commenting on your 'weenie' remark because I don't want to make you cry again, 'though you'll probably use that as an excuse to start crying all over again.
                        βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                        ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                        אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                          Because one type of person who might be disappointed by this movie and want to burn me at the stake would probably heed the opinion of AiG. I will refrain from commenting on your 'weenie' remark because I don't want to make you cry again, 'though you'll probably use that as an excuse to start crying all over again.
                          1) Oh, okay (ya couldn't just say that to begin with? ).
                          2) Nah, that was last week. For the next three, I'm more likely to make you cry than you me.

                          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                          My Personal Blog

                          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                          Quill Sword

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                            1) Oh, okay (ya couldn't just say that to begin with? ).
                            2) Nah, that was last week. For the next three, I'm more likely to make you cry than you me.

                            1) I thought that would be obvious enough, for most people anyway. 2) I don't think you can make me cry.
                            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              For what it's worth...
                              BOX OFFICE: ANTI-GOD 'NOAH' DIVES, 'GOD'S NOT DEAD' SOARS

                              by JOHN NOLTE 12 Apr 2014

                              In its second weekend, "Captain America: The Winter Soldier" is in a fight for the top spot with new release "Rio 2." Both sequels are circling $40 million-plus weekends. No surprise there. But proving you can only fool people for so long, in its third weekend, director Darren Aronofsky's creepy attempt to fool the public into believing his anti-God "Noah" was a biblical tale ran aground with a paltry $7.1 million weekend.

                              As of Monday, Russell Crowe's Gnostic bait-and-switcheroo will sit somewhere around $84 million. That will officially put it behind the pace of Russell Crowe's previous big-budget flop "Robin Hood," which managed to only reach $105 million at the North American box office.

                              "Noah" is now in real danger of losing money. Between its $125 million production budget and promotional budget likely in the $50 to $75 million range, the anti-God epic needs to gross something close to $400 million worldwide just to break even. Depending on how many countries remain for the film to open in, as of now $400 million is a long ways off.

                              Going forward, "Noah" is also facing serious headwinds. The Vatican newspaper just blasted the film, a lousy CinemaScore rating of "C" usually means terrible word-of-mouth, and after fooling moviegoers and many in the Christian media through its first weekend, the word is now out that "Noah" is an attack on God, not biblical.

                              Meanwhile, a truly Christian film, "God's Not Dead," continues to soar at the box office. In its fourth weekend, the story of a student's confrontation with an atheist teacher (played by Kevin Sorbo) grossed $5.3 million, for a total of $40.7 million. With a production and promotional budget that totaled $4 million, "God's Not Dead" has to be closing in on a record as far as return on investment.

                              The rest of the story is here.
                              Last edited by John Reece; 04-13-2014, 08:01 AM.

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                              • #90
                                Thanks, John.
                                βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                                ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                                אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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