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Find out if Caesar crossed the Rubicon or threw a dollar across it.

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The End Is Near?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Some years ago I had a series of three threads in the economics section that dealt with this issue and some of the issues that could possible lead to this 'perfect storm' collapse, but in my view it need not be such perfect storm for such a collapse to occur.

    I can give you one key issue and set of circumstances that will contribute significantly. Global drying (not necessarily directly related to human influence of 'climate change.') has been in progress for thousands of years. Our major regions of food product border arid and semiarid regions. The major direct effect of Global drying is the loose of agricultural lands to the expansion of arid and semi arid regions unsuitable for agriculture. At present our demands for food are approaching the limits of our ability to produce food. We are relying on increasing technology to close the gap, but that will not likely be sufficient.

    Aridification is most apparent in China, USA, Africa and Australia. The most immediate vulnerable populations of the world are in the third world countries, like in Africa, that border arid regions.

    I will post more on this.
    Do you think that 'the end is near'? I'm interested in exploring in this thread the use of apocalyptic and other religious ideas in attempting to discuss science and the end of world history. Star Trek is also always an acceptable topic, which is a form of utopian scientific myth.
    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by robrecht View Post
      Do you think that 'the end is near'? I'm interested in exploring in this thread the use of apocalyptic and other religious ideas in attempting to discuss science and the end of world history. Star Trek is also always an acceptable topic, which is a form of utopian scientific myth.
      I avoid apocalyptic 'the end is near' thinking, but nonetheless I believe humanity is facing the greatest tragedy in human history, but not the end.

      From the religious perspective I consider this possible course of events to be the 'birth pains of the advent of a new age' we are going through now. The old world is passing away painfully to make way for the new. The ancient religions of the world, ie, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Hinduism, represent a divided human world of old world divisions at war with itself compounded by nationalism and tribalism, and growing gap between the wealthy elite and massive and growing poor of the world. I consider the diverse efforts from both the secular and religious worlds as more like 'bandaids for cancer,' and totally failing to address the real issues such as clinging to ancient world views that arrogantly divide the world in the deluded view of good and evil.

      Off the soap box and next post the more real world reasons for the possibility of the collapse of our present house of cards.



      I love science fiction, but I never have been a fan of Star Trek. Far too simplistic, idealistic and two dimensional.
      Last edited by shunyadragon; 06-23-2014, 07:44 AM.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        I avoid apocalyptic 'the end is near' thinking, but nonetheless I believe humanity is facing the greatest tragedy in human history, but not the end.

        From the religious perspective I consider this possible course of events to be the 'birth pains of the advent of a new age' we are going through now. The old world is passing away painfully to make way for the new. The ancient religions of the world, ie, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Hinduism, represent a divided human world of old world divisions at war with itself compounded by nationalism and tribalism, and growing gap between the wealthy elite and massive and growing poor of the world. I consider the diverse efforts from both the secular and religious worlds as more like 'bandaids for cancer,' and totally failing to address the real issues such as clinging to ancient world views that arrogantly divide the world in the deluded view of good and evil.

        Off the soap box and next post the more real world reasons for the possibility of the collapse of our present house of cards.

        I love science fiction, but I never have been a fan of Star Trek. Far too simplistic, idealistic and two dimensional.
        It may be interesting to see how your own views differ from Star Trek.
        βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
        ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

        אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by robrecht View Post
          It may be interesting to see how your own views differ from Star Trek.
          I am writing a scifi triology. One hint my starships are very very human crews, with all the human faults we have here on earth like crime, murder, sexuality and worse.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            I am writing a scifi triology. One hint my starships are very very human crews, with all the human faults we have here on earth like crime, murder, sexuality and worse.
            I was referring to your view of the new age, new world. Does your science fiction writing illustrate your view of the coming new age or new world?
            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by robrecht View Post
              I was referring to your view of the new age, new world. Does your science fiction writing illustrate your view of the coming new age or new world?
              In some ways yes, but a too idealistic view.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                In some ways yes, but a too idealistic view.
                So that particular critique of yours of Star Trek, ie, that it is too idealistic, also seems to apply to your own science fiction writing, yes?
                βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                Comment


                • #38
                  I find that I tend to find what I look for in people - and if the world were really as bad as what is often referred to as 'realistic', humanity wouldn't have made it long enough for there to be an AD calendar year...
                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Quill Sword

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                    So that particular critique of yours of Star Trek, ie, that it is too idealistic, also seems to apply to your own science fiction writing, yes?
                    I do not think you have read any of it to make that judgment,
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Psst! SD, he's asking based on your own comment about it - he's not critiquing. I think he's just making sure he gets where you are coming from.

                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                      Quill Sword

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        I find that I tend to find what I look for in people - and if the world were really as bad as what is often referred to as 'realistic', humanity wouldn't have made it long enough for there to be an AD calendar year...
                        We're dealing with a severe scale issue and there was no problem with many cultures and kingdoms lasting thousands of years past the beginning of the AD calendar which itself is an illusion.

                        Yes, on occasion a culture or kingdom catastrophically failed in a similar way that we may go down the tubes.
                        Last edited by shunyadragon; 06-23-2014, 09:20 PM.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          We're dealing with a severe scale issue and there was no problem with many cultures and kingdoms lasting thousands of years past the beginning of the AD calendar which itself is an illusion.

                          My point being that if humans were as 'realistic' as modern writers would have us believe, neither of us would have had ancestors living long enough to generate the progeny necessary for us to now be having this discussion.
                          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                          My Personal Blog

                          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                          Quill Sword

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            I do not think you have read any of it to make that judgment,
                            I'm just trying to make sure I understand correctly what you yourself said:

                            shunyadragon: I love science fiction, but I never have been a fan of Star Trek. Far too simplistic, idealistic and two dimensional.

                            robrecht: Does your science fiction writing illustrate your view of the coming new age or new world?

                            shunyadragon: In some ways yes, but a too idealistic view.

                            robrecht: So that particular critique of yours of Star Trek, ie, that it is too idealistic, also seems to apply to your own science fiction writing, yes?

                            Capisci?
                            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                              I'm just trying to make sure I understand correctly what you yourself said:

                              shunyadragon: I love science fiction, but I never have been a fan of Star Trek. Far too simplistic, idealistic and two dimensional.

                              robrecht: Does your science fiction writing illustrate your view of the coming new age or new world?

                              shunyadragon: In some ways yes, but a too idealistic view.

                              robrecht: So that particular critique of yours of Star Trek, ie, that it is too idealistic, also seems to apply to your own science fiction writing, yes?

                              Capisci?
                              no
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                                My point being that if humans were as 'realistic' as modern writers would have us believe, neither of us would have had ancestors living long enough to generate the progeny necessary for us to now be having this discussion.
                                I don't understand this line of logic. Actually being 'realistic' in terms of modern scifi and fantasy writers has nothing to do with 'neither of us would have had ancestors living long enough to generate the progeny necessary for us to now be having this discussion.'

                                The role of scifi in terms of whether there will be a future catastrophe that devastates our civilization is little more then a sideshow as to whether there will be future united world beyond the catastrophe, or maybe the human world will end. This represents scifi conjecture and little else.

                                The best discussion is 'What is basis fo studies like this to conclude that there possibly will be such collapse of our civilization, or possible a global catastrophe that would cripple our technological world?
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

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