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Welcome to World History 201.

Find out if Caesar crossed the Rubicon or threw a dollar across it.

This is the forum where world history, in general, can be discussed. Since the WH201, like the other fora in the World History department, is not limited to participation along lines of theology, all may post here.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    So, what are credits then, huh?
    I don't know. I think you know more about Star Trek than me!
    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

    Comment


    • #17
      The Star Trek Economy: (Mostly) Post-Scarcity (Mostly) Socialism

      By Matthew Yglesias

      http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/..._scarcity.html
      βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
      ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

      אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

      Comment


      • #18
        NASA distances itself from the study:

        Source: "Press Release

        The following is a statement from NASA regarding erroneous media reports crediting the agency with an academic paper on population and societal impacts.
        "A soon-to-be published research paper 'Human and Nature Dynamics (HANDY): Modeling Inequality and Use of Resources in the Collapse or Sustainability of Societies' by University of Maryland researchers Safa Motesharrei and Eugenia Kalnay, and University of Minnesota’s Jorge Rivas was not solicited, directed or reviewed by NASA. It is an independent study by the university researchers utilizing research tools developed for a separate NASA activity.
        "As is the case with all independent research, the views and conclusions in the paper are those of the authors alone. NASA does not endorse the paper or its conclusions."

        © Copyright Original Source

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Paprika View Post
          NASA distances itself from the study:

          Source: "Press Release

          The following is a statement from NASA regarding erroneous media reports crediting the agency with an academic paper on population and societal impacts.
          "A soon-to-be published research paper 'Human and Nature Dynamics (HANDY): Modeling Inequality and Use of Resources in the Collapse or Sustainability of Societies' by University of Maryland researchers Safa Motesharrei and Eugenia Kalnay, and University of Minnesota’s Jorge Rivas was not solicited, directed or reviewed by NASA. It is an independent study by the university researchers utilizing research tools developed for a separate NASA activity.
          "As is the case with all independent research, the views and conclusions in the paper are those of the authors alone. NASA does not endorse the paper or its conclusions."

          © Copyright Original Source

          ah so yet again someone is trying to legitimize their political agenda by making it sound backed by science. I was wondering what NASA would have to do with such a study.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Paprika View Post
            NASA distances itself from the study:

            Source: "Press Release

            The following is a statement from NASA regarding erroneous media reports crediting the agency with an academic paper on population and societal impacts.
            "A soon-to-be published research paper 'Human and Nature Dynamics (HANDY): Modeling Inequality and Use of Resources in the Collapse or Sustainability of Societies' by University of Maryland researchers Safa Motesharrei and Eugenia Kalnay, and University of Minnesota’s Jorge Rivas was not solicited, directed or reviewed by NASA. It is an independent study by the university researchers utilizing research tools developed for a separate NASA activity.
            "As is the case with all independent research, the views and conclusions in the paper are those of the authors alone. NASA does not endorse the paper or its conclusions."

            © Copyright Original Source

            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

            Quill Sword

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by NASA
              ... was not solicited, directed or reviewed by NASA. It is an independent study by the university researchers utilizing research tools developed for a separate NASA activity. ...
              Very interesting. I wonder what the research tools were, and what NASA activity they were developed to support?
              Last edited by robrecht; 03-24-2014, 10:30 AM.
              βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
              ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

              אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

              Comment


              • #22
                I'm curious who was mainly responsible for launching the "NASA was responsible" narrative. I'm assuming it probably wasn't the researchers themselves; I imagine pulling such a stunt would be a good way to blackball oneself from future funding from anywhere.
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  I'm curious who was mainly responsible for launching the "NASA was responsible" narrative. I'm assuming it probably wasn't the researchers themselves; I imagine pulling such a stunt would be a good way to blackball oneself from future funding from anywhere.
                  The author of the initial article responds:

                  http://www.theguardian.com/environme...fclimatechange
                  βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                  ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                  אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                    Very interesting. I wonder what the research tools were, and what NASA activity they were developed to support?
                    The paper states that "this work was partially funded through NASA/GSFC grant NNX12AD03A", which was given to Antonio Busalacchi for "Collaborative Earth System Science Research between NASA/GSFC and UMCP". This research included the development of the HANDY model which Motesharrei et al. used to model societies.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                      The author of the initial article responds:

                      http://www.theguardian.com/environme...fclimatechange
                      yeah so it sounds like it was the news reporter who decided to try to give his story a bit more credibility by claiming "NASA funded" when it was not, and he is now in some desperate defensive mode when it came to light what he did.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        yeah so it sounds like it was the news reporter who decided to try to give his story a bit more credibility by claiming "NASA funded" when it was not, and he is now in some desperate defensive mode when it came to light what he did.
                        The journalist's most specific statement in his original article speaks of "The NASA-funded HANDY model," and that appears to be correct. I would not assume that he wrote the headline. From Paprika's very helpful post, it seems as if NASA invested some $9 million dollars into the Grant Study: "Collaborative Earth System Science Research between NASA/GSFC and UMCP". I'm not sure how much of that went toward the development of this HANDY model and what the actual topics of this research were. But if NASA wants to give me a grant, I'll be happy to look into it.
                        βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                        ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                        אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                          The journalist's most specific statement in his original article speaks of "The NASA-funded HANDY model," and that appears to be correct. I would not assume that he wrote the headline. From Paprika's very helpful post, it seems as if NASA invested some $9 million dollars into the Grant Study: "Collaborative Earth System Science Research between NASA/GSFC and UMCP". I'm not sure how much of that went toward the development of this HANDY model and what the actual topics of this research were. But if NASA wants to give me a grant, I'll be happy to look into it.
                          actually the most specific statement was the first one:
                          "A new study sponsored by Nasa's Goddard Space Flight Center has highlighted the prospect that global industrial civilisation could collapse in coming decades due to unsustainable resource exploitation and increasingly unequal wealth distribution. "

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            actually the most specific statement was the first one:
                            "A new study sponsored by Nasa's Goddard Space Flight Center has highlighted the prospect that global industrial civilisation could collapse in coming decades due to unsustainable resource exploitation and increasingly unequal wealth distribution. "
                            I was speaking of the most specific statement as to what exactly was funded, ie, the model and not the study reported on in the article. I would still like to know more about what the $9 million was spent on.
                            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              In another thread, John Reece has posted a very helpful link that helps explain the origins of this new apocalyptic religion, which is the topic of this thread (that and Star Trek, of course):
                              The theologist Michael Rosenberger has described climate protection as a new religion, based on a fear for the apocalypse, with dogmas, heretics and inquisitors like Nuccitelli.

                              http://www.theguardian.com/environme...global-warming

                              Michael is a German Catholic moral theologian with an interesting analysis of this new apocalyptic religion.
                              The Reason of "Climate Religion". A Theological-Ethical Critique of Climate Skeptical Arguments

                              Michael Rosenberger

                              Climate skeptics put forth many arguments against climate protection. Among them, two are particularly interesting from a theological point of view: First, climate protection is described as a new, secular religion, with dogmas and declared heretics and with a system of purchasable indulgence analogous to medieval Catholicism. Second, this "climate religion" gains its power largely from inducing fear - fear of apocalyptic catastrophes coming soon if people won't change their lifestyles fundamentally. The article, written in a perspective of theological ethics, does not deny the skeptics' analysis of climate protection as religion. It rejects, however, the underlying negative evaluation of any religion as behind the times and as lacking any rationality, providing evidence for the reasonability of "climate religion".

                              http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00002/art00006

                              I do not intend to debate the truth or falsity of this religion since I have zero expertise in this area, but the discussion of a secular religion is fascinating. I especially like the part about indulgences!
                              Last edited by robrecht; 06-10-2014, 11:33 AM.
                              βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                              ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                              אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                                "Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?

                                Natural and social scientists develop new model of how 'perfect storm' of crises could unravel global system."

                                http://www.theguardian.com/environme...udy-scientists
                                Some years ago I had a series of three threads in the economics section that dealt with this issue and some of the issues that could possible lead to this 'perfect storm' collapse, but in my view it need not be such perfect storm for such a collapse to occur.

                                I can give you one key issue and set of circumstances that will contribute significantly. Global drying (not necessarily directly related to human influence of 'climate change.') has been in progress for thousands of years. Our major regions of food product border arid and semiarid regions. The major direct effect of Global drying is the loose of agricultural lands to the expansion of arid and semi arid regions unsuitable for agriculture. At present our demands for food are approaching the limits of our ability to produce food. We are relying on increasing technology to close the gap, but that will not likely be sufficient.

                                Aridification is most apparent in China, USA, Africa and Australia. The most immediate vulnerable populations of the world are in the third world countries, like in Africa, that border arid regions.

                                I will post more on this.
                                Last edited by shunyadragon; 06-22-2014, 02:21 PM.
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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