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Church History 201 Guidelines

Welcome to Church History 201.

Believe it or not, this is the exact place where Luther first posted the 94 thesis. We convinced him to add one.

This is the forum where the Church and its actions in history can be discussed. Since CH201, like the other fora in the History department, is not limited to participation along lines of theology, all may post here. This means that anything like Ecclesiology can be discussed without the restrictions of the Ecclesiology forum, and without the atmosphere of Ecclesiology 201 or the Apologetics-specific forum.

Please keep the Campus Decorum in mind when posting here--while 'belief' restrictions are not in place, common decency is and such is not the area to try disembowel anyone's faith.

If you need to refresh yourself on the decorm, now would be a good time.


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International Fellowship of Christians and Jews

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    Your ignorance of what the bible actually says is glaring.
    How is your Hebrew and your Koine Greek?

    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    You should stop while you are behind. When you can accurately describe what we believe and what the bible says
    Yet many of your fellow Christians would not agree with everything you happen to believe, as has been evidenced on these boards; and when a Christian comes along who offers a slightly different opinion they are accused of not being a real/true Christian by some. Purely as a matter of interest what is your position regarding the Roman Catholics or Copts? Do you accept them to be Christians like yourself?
    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
      How is your Hebrew and your Koine Greek?

      Yet many of your fellow Christians would not agree with everything you happen to believe, as has been evidenced on these boards; and when a Christian comes along who offers a slightly different opinion they are accused of not being a real/true Christian by some. Purely as a matter of interest what is your position regarding the Roman Catholics or Copts? Do you accept them to be Christians like yourself?
      I never said you couldn't read other languages. But that is not the same as understanding what a text is teaching, or what a member of a religion believes about their deity. Your characterization of God, and of what he created is at odds with what the bible says and what Christianity believes. And yes, I consider RC as Christian. I don't know much about Coptics but I THINK they are too. Your dodging by trying to switch topics is acknowledged.

      Now do you understand what Genesis teaches about God, Creation and the Fall? If so, then you would see that your initial objection to God was wrong in all aspects. If not, then there is no reason to argue against some straw man that I don't believe in either.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        Yet many of your fellow Christians would not agree with everything you happen to believe, as has been evidenced on these boards; and when a Christian comes along who offers a slightly different opinion they are accused of not being a real/true Christian by some. Purely as a matter of interest what is your position regarding the Roman Catholics or Copts? Do you accept them to be Christians like yourself?
        If they errantly paint God as an imaginary one-dimensional being, as you seem to do, they're probably not believers.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

          I never said you couldn't read other languages. But that is not the same as understanding what a text is teaching, or what a member of a religion believes about their deity.
          You do not seem to understand that you do not possess the definitive and only correct interpretation of your texts. As I have pointed out your specific view of your religion is not necessarily shared by your fellow Christians.

          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          Your characterization of God, and of what he created is at odds with what the bible says and what Christianity believes.
          In what regard?

          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          And yes, I consider RC as Christian. I don't know much about Coptics but I THINK they are too.
          Thank you and by the way I did point that my question was "[p]urely as a matter of interest".

          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          Now do you understand what Genesis teaches about God, Creation and the Fall
          I know what the texts as we have them say.

          However, the whole Fall story becomes complete nonsense if it is believed that the Supreme Being is both omnipotent and omniscient.
          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
            You do not seem to understand that you do not possess the definitive and only correct interpretation of your texts. As I have pointed out your specific view of your religion is not necessarily shared by your fellow Christians.
            I never claimed I did, I just know that I believe in the core teachings of the Christian Church as taught for the last 2000+ years. It's a consensus. You on the other hand, can't even state what that consensus is regarding our belief about the nature of God or his creation.

            In what regard?
            If you were to read the bible you would find out. I am not going to spoon-feed you if you are too lazy to do your own homework.


            I know what the texts as we have them say.
            And, pray tell, what is that? So far your characterization of the nature of God is at odds with it.

            However, the whole Fall story becomes complete nonsense if it is believed that the Supreme Being is both omnipotent and omniscient.
            Whether you accept it as true or reject it as nonsense doesn't matter, does it? If you want to convince me, you have to work within my paradigm and the parameters of my faith. Arguing that a God that I don't believe in can't exist doesn't really convince me of anything, now does it? You might as well be arguing against Thor, God of Thunder.




            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              I never claimed I did, I just know that I believe in the core teachings of the Christian Church as taught for the last 2000+ years. It's a consensus.
              Protestants do not accept transubstantiation. Protestants do not recognise Mary’s perpetual
              virginity. The Coptic Christians differ over beliefs surrounding the human and divine nature of the Son. Some Protestant sects do not recognise infant baptism. Protestants do not accept the belief in Purgatory nor the veneration of saints and their intercessory abilities. Unitarians do not accept the Trinity.

              Given those brief present day examples it is quite clear that Christianity has no “consensus” and nor has it been taught for “the last 2000+ years”. The first two and a half centuries [approximately from the writings of Paul in the 50s CE until the Edict of Milan in 313 CE] the Christian religion was entirely fluid. Different Christian groups believed different things and argued against one another's beliefs.

              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              If you were to read the bible you would find out. I am not going to spoon-feed you if you are too lazy to do your own homework.
              Reading Genesis is not going to suddenly provide me with enlightenment.

              Furthermore the Christian interpretation of Genesis 3 is somewhat different from that of Judaism. The notion of original sin being passed on through the generations does not exist in Judaism.

              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              And, pray tell, what is that? So far your characterization of the nature of God is at odds with it.
              How so? The Christian god is believed to be omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent [and even omnipresent].

              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              Whether you accept it as true or reject it as nonsense doesn't matter, does it?
              Of course it does if I am critically assessing it. Nor am I attempting to convince you of anything. I am simply pointing that your belief that your theology in some way dates back to around 33 CE is erroneous. The things you now believe are the result of theological developments that took place over hundreds of years. The opposition to abortion among some Christians for example has no scriptural basis. There is nothing in the Hebrew texts that forbids abortion and in the four canonical gospels Jesus is silent on that topic.
              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                Protestants do not accept....
                Many of us focus on the things on which we agree, and don't do battle over the things on which we do not agree. Lately, it seems like it's the outsiders who are always trying to drive the wedge.

                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                  Many of us focus on the things on which we agree, and don't do battle over the things on which we do not agree. Lately, it seems like it's the outsiders who are always trying to drive the wedge.
                  No is disputing that. You made the case for your own group's work with the Jewish community in your area evident some pages back on this thread.

                  However, the fact remains that within Christianity there have always been dissenters. In centuries past they were anathematised and/or killed by the ascendant group.
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                    No is disputing that. You made the case for your own group's work with the Jewish community in your area evident some pages back on this thread.

                    However, the fact remains that within Christianity there have always been dissenters. In centuries past they were anathematised and/or killed by the ascendant group.
                    And people like you seem to love to try to throw fuel on any little fire you can find.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                      And people like you seem to love to try to throw fuel on any little fire you can find.
                      Oh please. No one made Sparko respond to my comment at post #9. And no one forced you to join in.
                      "It ain't necessarily so
                      The things that you're liable
                      To read in the Bible
                      It ain't necessarily so
                      ."

                      Sportin' Life
                      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                        Oh please. No one made Sparko respond to my comment at post #9. And no one forced you to join in.
                        And nobody forced you to make your comment at post #9.

                        And had already been in the conversation, and very respectfully so. I can't help it you decided to change course.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                          Of course I could turn your question around to you and ask Why does your loving deity permit the suffering and cruelty in the first place?
                          Just for the record, THIS is the post about which you keep kvetching?

                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                            And nobody forced you to make your comment at post #9.
                            Indeed they did not. However, that is immaterial with regard to your decision to respond.

                            No one compelled either Sparko or yourself to do so .

                            You could have both simply ignored my comment at post #9 and thereby kept this thread on "course".
                            .

                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                              Indeed they did not. However, that is immaterial with regard to your decision to respond.
                              GOSH you can be dense! If you had not made that goofy statement, I wouldn't have even had the opportunity to respond!

                              No one compelled either Sparko or yourself to do so .
                              SO WHAT?

                              You could have both simply ignored my comment at post #9 and thereby kept this thread on "course".
                              .
                              I still seriously doubt you had honest intentions with the thread - I think that was where you were going all along.
                              And the more you protest, the more I think I'm right!






                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                                GOSH you can be dense! If you had not made that goofy statement, I wouldn't have even had the opportunity to respond!



                                SO WHAT?



                                I still seriously doubt you had honest intentions with the thread - I think that was where you were going all along.
                                And the more you protest, the more I think I'm right!





                                I am merely responding to your posts on this topic. Cease posting about this and so will I.
                                "It ain't necessarily so
                                The things that you're liable
                                To read in the Bible
                                It ain't necessarily so
                                ."

                                Sportin' Life
                                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                                Comment

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