On secularism, there's no ontological foundation for morality. If you believe societies create morality, how do you judge something your society considers moral immoral?
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Originally posted by psstein View PostOn secularism, there's no ontological foundation for morality. If you believe societies create morality, how do you judge something your society considers moral immoral?1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
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This is what your god ordered his "faithful" to do to thousands of helpless Amalekite, Midianite, and Canaanite children. Shame on all of you for making pathetic justifications for these immoral, barbaric acts..
Dead children from the evil of war.jpg
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Originally posted by psstein View PostOn secularism, there's no ontological foundation for morality. If you believe societies create morality, how do you judge something your society considers moral immoral?
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostIt seems that he assumes a society has the right to decide what is moral, provided that they conform with what he considers moral.
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Originally posted by psstein View PostOn secularism, there's no ontological foundation for morality. If you believe societies create morality, how do you judge something your society considers moral immoral?
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Originally posted by Gary View PostAbsolutely not. I am only one individual in the herd. I have the right to have my own moral standard, but if it violates the moral standard of the herd, I will likely find myself in trouble. For instance, it might be my moral standard that all redheads are evil and should be killed. However, if I start killing redheads, the herd will lock me up. I must conform to the herd's morality or face the consequences of the herd's wrath.
But let's run a small exercise - just to see if you are capable of exercising logic and imagination:
Can you think of anything that would justify a man chasing down and picking up a 2 year old, then hurl him 10 feet through the air to land in a heap on the ground? - I'llmake it easy for you ... instead of 10 feet, make it 20.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostWhich has nothing to do with your passing judgement on the people of Saul's time - you are demanding that your evaluation of the morality of the killing the children be accepted with regard to a matter that you are not qualified to pass judgement on.
But let's run a small exercise - just to see if you are capable of exercising logic and imagination:
Can you think of anything that would justify a man chasing down and picking up a 2 year old, then hurl him 10 feet through the air to land in a heap on the ground? - I'llmake it easy for you ... instead of 10 feet, make it 20.
As for your hypothetical situation, I am not going to jump into your trap. My position is this: There is never ANY justification for chasing down children to chop them to pieces with your sword or ax, or, run your sword through their little bodies. Period.
Your justifications for this immoral act are repugnant. If you were to post your position on any secular forum, you would be considered a sicko.
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Originally posted by Gary View PostTabby, I can pass judgment on any issue, present or past, that I choose. The fact that it offends you that I am passing judgment on the behavior of ancient middle-eastern nomadic peoples, is your problem. I do not need to justify my outrage, to you, at their barbaric behavior.
As for your hypothetical situation, I am not going to jump into your trap. My position is this: There is never ANY justification for chasing down children to chop them to pieces with your sword or ax, or, run your sword through their little bodies. Period.
Your justifications for this immoral act are repugnant. If you were to post your position on any secular forum, you would be considered a sicko.
Then because of your prodding, I gave the matter deeper consideration, and found that a situation could possibly exist which would make killing of infants and small children necessary. What that circumstance is, I won't detail.
You won't walk into my trap? The trap is of your own making - you can't even imagine circumstances where what I described could be justifiable. You can't even evaluate such a simple matter - yet you think you are qualified to evaluate the deeper matter of killing children at a time and place so far removed from your own.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Gary View PostThis is what your god ordered his "faithful" to do to thousands of helpless Amalekite, Midianite, and Canaanite children. Shame on all of you for making pathetic justifications for these immoral, barbaric acts..
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Praying to an imaginary, invisible deity is not going to prevent the suffering and deaths of children like those pictured above. These brutal acts will only be prevented if HUMAN BEINGS act to prevent them. Stop praying, and start DOING.
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostTo start with, I could not imagine circumstances that would make it justifiable, and stated that my inability to imagine such a situation did not mean that it could not arise - just that I could think of none.
Then because of your prodding, I gave the matter deeper consideration, and found that a situation could possibly exist which would make killing of infants and small children necessary. What that circumstance is, I won't detail.
You won't walk into my trap? The trap is of your own making - you can't even imagine circumstances where what I described could be justifiable. You can't even evaluate such a simple matter - yet you think you are qualified to evaluate the deeper matter of killing children at a time and place so far removed from your own.
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Originally posted by Gary View PostIf you are incapable of categorically condemning the murder of children, Tab, you are sick and immoral.
I stated that I can envisage circumstances where killing small children would be wholly justifiable. If there is one, there are likely to be others. God has all information at his disposal, with which to make a far more just decision than can I.Last edited by tabibito; 09-05-2015, 01:19 PM.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Real cute. Well first off, that's not what murder is.
Second, let's see you once again ignore scholarship. While the first isn't scholarship, while you were whining about evil, I was actually making a statement about it and studying the topic seriously. (You know, something you never did in your Christian days and never do today period.)
Here's an Ebook I wrote with an atheist on the topic:
http://www.amazon.com/God-Natural-Di...1R9S48SGPCQM02
And here are some interviews I've hosted with scholars in the field who specialize in the problem of evil:
http://deeperwaters.ddns.net/podcast...2ClayJones.mp3
http://deeperwaters.ddns.net/podcast...regGanssle.mp3
http://deeperwaters.ddns.net/podcast...2DavidWood.mp3
Keep your statements of faith. I'm talking with the scholars and most atheists by the way will even say today that the logical problem of evil has been answered.
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostYou can't evaluate such a simple matter as I presented to you. What makes you think your opinions of me - or of any other (God included) - are valid?
I stated that I can envisage circumstances where killing small children would be wholly justifiable. If there is one, there are likely to be others. God has all information at his disposal, with which to make a far more just decision than can I.
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Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View PostReal cute. Well first off, that's not what murder is.
Second, let's see you once again ignore scholarship. While the first isn't scholarship, while you were whining about evil, I was actually making a statement about it and studying the topic seriously. (You know, something you never did in your Christian days and never do today period.)
Here's an Ebook I wrote with an atheist on the topic:
http://www.amazon.com/God-Natural-Di...1R9S48SGPCQM02
And here are some interviews I've hosted with scholars in the field who specialize in the problem of evil:
http://deeperwaters.ddns.net/podcast...2ClayJones.mp3
http://deeperwaters.ddns.net/podcast...regGanssle.mp3
http://deeperwaters.ddns.net/podcast...2DavidWood.mp3
Keep your statements of faith. I'm talking with the scholars and most atheists by the way will even say today that the logical problem of evil has been answered.
Do you categorically condemn, in all circumstances, and in all ages, the chasing down of little children to chop off their little arms, legs, or head, or, to run a sword through their little bodies?
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