Dude, these are just too long. I may have missed one and I’m not proof reading these in my haste to push them out and get back to work – sorry.
I can really sum it all up like this: You think the evidence given is sufficient to believe the miraculous claims. I find it lacking and remain unconvinced.
and this is making me divide it into at least 2 posts...
You’re saying that no YHWH jew was ever a whore or whoremonger?
What would you say about thieves, liars, drunks? None of them either?
Jesus is quoted several times regarding hell and heaven. He told the story of Lazarus and the Rich man and often tangled with the Jewish elite, no?
Who do you think made up the bulk of the disciples? Do you think it was more like 50/50 wealthy and poor, or do you think one class had a majority? There’s always exceptions.
Talking about something is different that witnessing something. Being aware of an execution is one thing, but witnessing the dead come back to life is something else. All we know from acts 2 is that 3000 believed Peters sermon (which was preached the way I suggested it was) while many still didn’t believe, mistaking tongues for drunkenness.
So you’re no longer implying “sole motivator” but have come down to “main.” I am fine with that. People have many motivations and aren’t always guaranteed to be ruled by what society sees and the “main” one. And even then, as you’ve pointed out, there can still be a difference within a culture as to what is shameful or honorable, where what is one to one particular group, could even be the exact opposite to another.
No, the more we discuss this point, the more I think we actually agree.
LOL, depends on what we’re investigating. They found Troy. Many Greeks cited Homer. So is the Iliad true and by extension Greek mythology as the iliad refers to it?
Do you really not understand that certain claims are more plausible than others and that some require more substantial evidences than others? Your trying to put all historical claims on the same level isn’t an accurate way or view it. You’re either not as educated as you’re trying to demonstrate, or you’re just making strawmen with points like that, which is a sophomoric way to score imaginary pojnts in an argument. Let’s skip that and just chat.
Which part? Earlier you were saying that it was honor shame, and I asked about Harlotry (as one example) you said it would have been shameful to a jew but honorable to a pagan, right? I don’t care to look back and cut and paste. Do you not recall saying that or are you recanting/revising?
And Newton, when I get a moment I’ll try to look it up for you. You could always go to your local library…
Well, I haven’t seen any real miracles but I have seen real fossils, and real insurance claims, so even if there are fake ones (and there are) I have real ones to know that they are also real. Vampires… I think they’re fake too – in part because of the fake ones, and in part due to the absence of real ones.
Serpents are wary of anything, always on the watch for danger.
“I doubt they are true.” Claims of miracles are made by all religions and sects of said religions. So even if I were persuaded that miracles did happen, which god did it? Which adherence to that god is the right one? And what if there are miracles from competing religions? Are both gods real?
Visit India. Those folks have miracles every day, if you’re inclined to belief that sort of thing.
But I have yet to read of a miracle, validated by medical professionals, of someone being dead for 3 days and coming back to life, or regrowing a missing limb before their eyes.
Healing Steven Hawkins might be good trick. Win over your enemies is a pretty sound tactic.
This all comes down to opinion. I haven’t seen sufficient evidence for the resurrection. You think the best explanation is the miraculous in this case. We just differ.
And you call me a fundy? Fine. “God is not willing that any should perish, and who desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.” That better?
It’s neat.
Do i? in what way? I read. I study and travel. I do not devote 100% of my time to it, no – but if that’s what it takes, I don’t think anyone would make it.
And you should know that there is more knowledge to be learned that what is found in religion and philosophy. Or do you not consider your computer or doctor, or automobiles? You speak of the natural world as one of God’s revelations, but you seem here to be implying that for one to apply this knowledge, they must study to become an NT scholar. That seems shallow in thought, but I assume it was a remark shot from hip in a effort to score some sort of point?
But yes, we have more knowledge today than they did back then. Is that really news?
I question claims regarding miracles and your solution is to send me a fellow who makes more claims about miracles, and you really don’t understand why that isn’t adequate?
And I don’t think I’ll get one. But I’d be more likely to believe one I witnessed than one I didn’t. It supposedly happened and worked for Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Gideon, the Israelites, Hezekiah, Naaman, all the apostles, Herod and Paul.
What ion creation points toward the bible? I can see where creation may indicate an intelligent designer or designers, but does any part of it lead to the bible? Some of the things in creation seem counter to what’s found about it in the bible – what then? Just assume the bible must mean something other than what it says?
I can really sum it all up like this: You think the evidence given is sufficient to believe the miraculous claims. I find it lacking and remain unconvinced.
and this is making me divide it into at least 2 posts...
Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix
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What would you say about thieves, liars, drunks? None of them either?
Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix
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Who do you think made up the bulk of the disciples? Do you think it was more like 50/50 wealthy and poor, or do you think one class had a majority? There’s always exceptions.
Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix
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Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix
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No, the more we discuss this point, the more I think we actually agree.
Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix
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Do you really not understand that certain claims are more plausible than others and that some require more substantial evidences than others? Your trying to put all historical claims on the same level isn’t an accurate way or view it. You’re either not as educated as you’re trying to demonstrate, or you’re just making strawmen with points like that, which is a sophomoric way to score imaginary pojnts in an argument. Let’s skip that and just chat.
Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix
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And Newton, when I get a moment I’ll try to look it up for you. You could always go to your local library…
Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix
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Serpents are wary of anything, always on the watch for danger.
Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix
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Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix
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Visit India. Those folks have miracles every day, if you’re inclined to belief that sort of thing.
But I have yet to read of a miracle, validated by medical professionals, of someone being dead for 3 days and coming back to life, or regrowing a missing limb before their eyes.
Healing Steven Hawkins might be good trick. Win over your enemies is a pretty sound tactic.
Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix
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Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix
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Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix
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Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix
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And you should know that there is more knowledge to be learned that what is found in religion and philosophy. Or do you not consider your computer or doctor, or automobiles? You speak of the natural world as one of God’s revelations, but you seem here to be implying that for one to apply this knowledge, they must study to become an NT scholar. That seems shallow in thought, but I assume it was a remark shot from hip in a effort to score some sort of point?
But yes, we have more knowledge today than they did back then. Is that really news?
Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix
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And I don’t think I’ll get one. But I’d be more likely to believe one I witnessed than one I didn’t. It supposedly happened and worked for Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Gideon, the Israelites, Hezekiah, Naaman, all the apostles, Herod and Paul.
Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix
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