Comment Thread for The Resurrection of Jesus - Apologiaphoenix vs Gary

[Mikeenders]

What a little weasel. Runs in and claims victory on a technicality and misunderstanding of terms, and then retreats into his hole when asked to provide his own position.

You Christians are all over the map on this issue.

LOL. there is no evidence but well there is - oh that was just a technicality.....nothing but jokes from Gary this week. As for Christians all over the map. tell you what? pick a date for The eruption of Thera and prove it. No christian or Bible involved in that and all we have is range of dates over a hundreds years and more. Roughly the same time period too and some of the same issues involved - Affected most of the civilized world at the time and we just don't know . Until more data comes in we won't either. Facts and truth is not your stupid consensus nonsense. you don't just pick a date and vote on it and voila - the issue is closed.

I should have listened to my atheist friends before I started debating this issue with you guys here on TW

Meh still would have gotten your head handed to you anyway. Call em...why are they not in here? or did you invite them, they saw you embarrassing yourself and leave without posting? Thats cold hearted.....but hey its atheists we are talking about soo what can you expect??

Lesson learned.

That will be the day. Page 391 proves otherwise

[Gary]

You're the one claiming there is a Kadesh in the Sinai Desert - Find a source that dermonstrates the fact.

The map shows the location of Kadesh Barnea as being the same described by the Jewish source.

Rudolph Cohen The Israel Museum, Jerusalem 1983

ADKadesh-barnea's importance in the history of the Jewish people derives primarily from its biblical association with Israel's sojourn in the desert. As a consequence, numerous scholars of past generations have attempted to equate biblical Kadesh-barnea with sites in Sinai, the Negev, or even more distant places. Early in this century, a general scholarly consensus emerged, identifying Kadesh-barnea with Tell el-Qudeirat, located in the fertile valley watered by the spring of 'Ain el-Qudeirat.

Note the date on that piece: 1983

Updated:

Kadesh Barnea Located at ancient El Beidha, 5 km north of Petra

It is our conclusion that Kadesh Barnea is located transjordan, at ancient El Beidha 5 km north of Petra. ... Although up to 25 different locations have been proposed for Kadesh Barnea, almost no one today questions that Kadesh is located at Ein el Qudeirat.

Well well - look at that. Petra is marked on the map too - just south of Kadesh Barnea.

Kadesh Barnea: A Reevaluation of Its Archaeology and HistoryIsrael Finkelstein Tel Aviv University

To sum up this point, an Iron I (late 12th to early 10th century BCE [Low Chronology]) occupation layer at Kadesh Barnea is evident (Singer-Avitz 2008).1

And just to top it all off, Josephus placed Kadesh Barnea in the vicinity of Petra.

Please give the link to the source of your map, Tabby.

[Gary]

NO against all odds we have survived your posts with no signs of cantagion.



Fixed that for you



Good night! . NOoooooooooooo. Anything but that.



Don't need to. My position has always been its still under research and the BAR article and other data confirms me right and you wrong that the debate was over. Sorry the debate that the debate is over is well - over. We now know its not so stay tuned. Until its done and really finished your claims of The Bible being proven wrong are all washed up - Like the first chariot guy rushing into the red sea......gulp.

What a little weasel. Runs in and claims victory on a technicality and misunderstanding of terms, and then retreats into his hole when asked to provide his own position.

You Christians are all over the map on this issue. I should have listened to my atheist friends before I started debating this issue with you guys here on TW. They had repeatedly warned me: "Make sure you pin them down to a date before you debate them on the Exodus! Otherwise, they will be pulling "evidence" from multiple time periods to prove the historicity of this fable".

Lesson learned.

Now, will one of you fundamentalists or even a moderate have some intestinal fortitude and actually pick ONE date and defend it???

[tabibito]

What a load or horse puckey, Tabby. You are quoting a Jewish source for the location of Kadesh-Barnea but then using the crackpot Cornucke's map. Get serious! Kadesh Barnea is further west than Cornucke's invented location. I'm not chasing after any more of your amateurish nonsense. Pick a date, Tabby! When was the Exodus? Stick with one date and defend it. Stop being a "Mike".

You're the one claiming there is a Kadesh in the Sinai Desert - Find a source that dermonstrates the fact.

The map shows the location of Kadesh Barnea as being the same described by the Jewish source.

Rudolph Cohen The Israel Museum, Jerusalem 1983

ADKadesh-barnea's importance in the history of the Jewish people derives primarily from its biblical association with Israel's sojourn in the desert. As a consequence, numerous scholars of past generations have attempted to equate biblical Kadesh-barnea with sites in Sinai, the Negev, or even more distant places. Early in this century, a general scholarly consensus emerged, identifying Kadesh-barnea with Tell el-Qudeirat, located in the fertile valley watered by the spring of 'Ain el-Qudeirat.

Note the date on that piece: 1983

Updated:

Kadesh Barnea Located at ancient El Beidha, 5 km north of Petra

It is our conclusion that Kadesh Barnea is located transjordan, at ancient El Beidha 5 km north of Petra. ... Although up to 25 different locations have been proposed for Kadesh Barnea, almost no one today questions that Kadesh is located at Ein el Qudeirat.

Well well - look at that. Petra is marked on the map too - just south of Kadesh Barnea.

Kadesh Barnea: A Reevaluation of Its Archaeology and HistoryIsrael Finkelstein Tel Aviv University

To sum up this point, an Iron I (late 12th to early 10th century BCE [Low Chronology]) occupation layer at Kadesh Barnea is evident (Singer-Avitz 2008).1

And just to top it all off, Josephus placed Kadesh Barnea in the vicinity of Petra.

[Mikeenders]

Are you brain-dead, you dip-wad?

NO against all odds we have survived your posts with no signs of cantagion.

I have already [been forced by your evidence to agree] that Finkelstein's associates pointed out that there is settlement activity during ONE of the traditional dates of the Exodus at K-B.

Fixed that for you

What more do you want? My head??

Good night! . NOoooooooooooo. Anything but that.

Now, pick a date, you fundamentalist ninny, and defend it

Don't need to. My position has always been its still under research and the BAR article and other data confirms me right and you wrong that the debate was over. Sorry the debate that the debate is over is well - over. We now know its not so stay tuned. Until its done and really finished your claims of The Bible being proven wrong are all washed up - Like the first chariot guy rushing into the red sea......gulp.

[Gary]

Yawn we know - you said that about BAR and Finketsein's friends too and then you starved for breakfast because all the eggs were used up on your facial mask.

Are you brain-dead, you dip-wad?

I have already agreed that Finkelstein's associates pointed out that there is settlement activity during ONE of the traditional dates of the Exodus at K-B. What more do you want? My head?? However, that does NOT mean that they believe that this evidence confirms the Exodus.

Now, pick a date, you fundamentalist ninny, and defend it!

[tabibito]

So the evidence given to me about the Scythians was burial sites.

You know, what I claimed that we had already found and why it is that that is important.

So Gary's evidence to consider that I hadn't supposedly was the evidence that I already gave.

By now I think we're all aware that evidence is only what agrees with Gary's opinion.

[Gary]

Kadesh-Barnea

An important oasis situated on the southern border of Canaan (Num. 34:4; Josh. 15:3; Ezek. 47:19; 48:28) in the wilderness of Zin (Num. 20:1; 27:14; 33:36; Deut. 32:51) – part of the wilderness of Paran (Num. 20:16) – at a distance of an eleven days' journey from Mt. Horeb (Deut. 1:2). Kadesh is alternatively called En-Mishpat ("spring of judgment"; Gen. 14:7) and the "waters of Meribah" ("strife," Num. 20:13, 24; 27:14; Deut. 32:51), names which indicate its special role as a sacred place of judgment and assembly for the desert tribes.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...eo/Kadesh.html

Here's the map again:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]10531[/ATTACH]

Wilderness of Zin - just east of Kadesh Barnea and extending north
Wilderness of Paran - east of Kadesh Barnea and extending south
They're both clearly marked.
And south of the Wilderness of Paran is the Sinai Desert - East of the Sinai Peninsula.

What a load or horse puckey, Tabby. You are quoting a Jewish source for the location of Kadesh-Barnea but then using the crackpot Cornucke's map. Get serious! Kadesh Barnea is further west than Cornucke's invented location. I'm not chasing after any more of your amateurish nonsense. Pick a date, Tabby! When was the Exodus? Stick with one date and defend it. Stop being a "Mike".

[Gary]

So the evidence given to me about the Scythians was burial sites.

You know, what I claimed that we had already found and why it is that that is important.

So Gary's evidence to consider that I hadn't supposedly was the evidence that I already gave.

There are "thousands" of burial sites for the Scythians. Please provide even ONE burial site of ancient Hebrews in the Sinai during either "traditional" Exodus dates.

[tabibito]

Kadesh-Barnea

An important oasis situated on the southern border of Canaan (Num. 34:4; Josh. 15:3; Ezek. 47:19; 48:28) in the wilderness of Zin (Num. 20:1; 27:14; 33:36; Deut. 32:51) – part of the wilderness of Paran (Num. 20:16) – at a distance of an eleven days' journey from Mt. Horeb (Deut. 1:2). Kadesh is alternatively called En-Mishpat ("spring of judgment"; Gen. 14:7) and the "waters of Meribah" ("strife," Num. 20:13, 24; 27:14; Deut. 32:51), names which indicate its special role as a sacred place of judgment and assembly for the desert tribes.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...eo/Kadesh.html

Here's the map again:
Kadesh Barnea.jpg

Wilderness of Zin - just east of Kadesh Barnea and extending north
Wilderness of Paran - east of Kadesh Barnea and extending south
They're both clearly marked.
And south of the Wilderness of Paran is the Sinai Desert - East of the Sinai Peninsula.

[Mikeenders]

My purpose of quoting ABR is to show you just how far out on a limb your position is; just how far to the fringe of the fringe your position is

Yawn we know - you said that about BAR and Finketsein's friends too and then you starved for breakfast because all the eggs were used up on your facial mask.

[Mikeenders]

You pathetic milly-mouthed little whiner: Pick a date for this tall tale, defend that date, or shut your trap!

Which being interpreted for those of you who need a translation of what Gary just said -

"
They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa.
They're coming to take me away, ho ho, he he, ha ha,
To the funny farm, where life is beautiful all the time
And I'll be happy to see those nice young
Men in their clean white coats and
They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!"


This Monday has started out great!

[Apologiaphoenix]

So the evidence given to me about the Scythians was burial sites.

You know, what I claimed that we had already found and why it is that that is important.

So Gary's evidence to consider that I hadn't supposedly was the evidence that I already gave.

[Gary]

Oh I am not endorsing all that Rohl says oh clueless one - I am saying if you are in his time period then you should at least go read up on what he reports on -I've said it like three times now - People have issues with how he adjusts the egyptian chronology but no one doubts all the things he reports on so its worth a read. This is the difference between you and stein and myself - I like the evidence and facts. I don't have to buy all the theories.

I wonder at what point Gary will figure out that ABR as his new favorite source is going to bite him in the rear (again)

My purpose of quoting ABR is to show you just how far out on a limb your position is; just how far to the fringe of the fringe your position is; to demonstrate that not only secular and liberal Christian scholars say your position is pure rubbish, but even conservative Christians scholars say you are seriously deranged to buy this amateurish drivel. Pick a date, Mikester, defend it, or admit you are a typical fundamentalist who will grasp at any and all claims of evidence, no matter how preposterous and regardless of their source, for the sole purpose of propping up your ancient fable.

[Gary]

Which part of "also known as" do you fail to understand Gary?
Perhaps you think I didn't check whether there might be an alternative site known as Kadesh?
[ATTACH=CONFIG]10529[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]10529[/ATTACH]

Name your source, Tabby. Don't tell me you pulled this from Cornucke's crackpot "research".