Originally posted by Mikeenders
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Sorry doesn't work. My God doesn't claim to be natural. In the natural world one thing leads to another - everything has a cause, Everything that happens is an effect. But sure you can pick no beginning and then you have an infinitely old universe which has no ultimate cause and your naturalism still dies a horrible death :). How can you talk about everything being natural when nothing has an ultimate cause? You are stuck (although you will never admit it). You end up with a supernatural thing and the theist ends up with a supernatural person but you both must invoke a supernatural or hide like you do from the reality. See? this is the kind of thing your skeptic sites can't handle which is why all they gave you to rebut with is "God did it" when thats not even the point at his juncture of the argument
A supernatural must have been involved . We know this. You were given the two alternatives and you were unable to deny those ARE the only two alternatives. Its a fact which is why every scientist working on the issue ends up with ideas that for all intents and purposes are supernatural whether they care to admit it or not - a rose by any other name - multiverse, everything out of nothing etc etc. you are just running and hiding into the "god did it" canard every atheist runs to to hide from this. We are talking about the supernatural - beyond naturalism at this point - NOT identifying a god or a person. Thats another argument but its not the issue we are on.
Yawn......you don't have a single solitary Bible verse NT or OT to back that up. Its all skeptic rhetoric. Ben Franklin and in fact most of the founders of Science were theist and none of them found their science incompatible with figuring out how God did things. IF Christians were all primitive and just said "god did it" as many foolish skeptics claim then why oh why were so many founders of science Christian?
learn to think independently. Thats proof positive of the skeptics lies that "early primitive human" Christians before science said "God did it " and that was it. They invented many of the sciences. Why would they if "God did it " was all they thought? THINK!
Yes they all believed God and his law was at the bottom of it but nothing in science has proven otherwise. When you can explain away laws of the universe then get back to me. This is a common silly myth propagated by the likes of Dawkins and Tyson trying to lump all religions together with Greek mythology. In the Bible we often have God saying he would destroy a nation. In almost every single case he used humans to do that. Still he says he does it because he controls the circumstances and the laws. Simple. Further the Jewish God rested on the seventh day. He maintains the natural order he created. He is not directly running around throwing lightning bolts....lol.....If so he could not be said to be at rest in regard to creation. Study some theology before you claim to know it. Does he take the credit for it...yes his law/word establishes it...Does that mean we cannot understand how it works? No more than understanding how a car works does away with the engineer that created it.
lets stop trying to dodge because you can't handle the fact and point. IF God of the gaps is wrong then invoking that common sense and what we already know will go away with more discoveries is just as weak. we know the two options available and there will be the same two a million years from now. beginning or no beginning. either one leads to a supernatural premise. Like it or not - thats reality.
A supernatural must have been involved . We know this. You were given the two alternatives and you were unable to deny those ARE the only two alternatives. Its a fact which is why every scientist working on the issue ends up with ideas that for all intents and purposes are supernatural whether they care to admit it or not - a rose by any other name - multiverse, everything out of nothing etc etc. you are just running and hiding into the "god did it" canard every atheist runs to to hide from this. We are talking about the supernatural - beyond naturalism at this point - NOT identifying a god or a person. Thats another argument but its not the issue we are on.
Yawn......you don't have a single solitary Bible verse NT or OT to back that up. Its all skeptic rhetoric. Ben Franklin and in fact most of the founders of Science were theist and none of them found their science incompatible with figuring out how God did things. IF Christians were all primitive and just said "god did it" as many foolish skeptics claim then why oh why were so many founders of science Christian?
learn to think independently. Thats proof positive of the skeptics lies that "early primitive human" Christians before science said "God did it " and that was it. They invented many of the sciences. Why would they if "God did it " was all they thought? THINK!
Yes they all believed God and his law was at the bottom of it but nothing in science has proven otherwise. When you can explain away laws of the universe then get back to me. This is a common silly myth propagated by the likes of Dawkins and Tyson trying to lump all religions together with Greek mythology. In the Bible we often have God saying he would destroy a nation. In almost every single case he used humans to do that. Still he says he does it because he controls the circumstances and the laws. Simple. Further the Jewish God rested on the seventh day. He maintains the natural order he created. He is not directly running around throwing lightning bolts....lol.....If so he could not be said to be at rest in regard to creation. Study some theology before you claim to know it. Does he take the credit for it...yes his law/word establishes it...Does that mean we cannot understand how it works? No more than understanding how a car works does away with the engineer that created it.
lets stop trying to dodge because you can't handle the fact and point. IF God of the gaps is wrong then invoking that common sense and what we already know will go away with more discoveries is just as weak. we know the two options available and there will be the same two a million years from now. beginning or no beginning. either one leads to a supernatural premise. Like it or not - thats reality.
Please quote any national scientific organization or society who agrees with this statement.
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