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Comment Thread for The Resurrection of Jesus - Apologiaphoenix vs Gary

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  • Originally posted by Gary View Post
    Your arrogance precludes you from using common sense. You are the stereotypical bookworm nerd who can produce remarkably complicated theories, but has no common sense about real life whatsoever.
    Yep. Reading people in my field who know far better than I do and interacting with him. What hubris I possess.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mikeenders View Post
      You've convinced Nick of that but the closest that seems likely to me is perhaps you were one at some time, have lost several steps since and now may need some help of your own on that front.
      No he hasn't. I just do my own research independently.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by psstein View Post
        You're doing what Ludemann did, then recanted because he realized he was wrong. Paul is not referring to Pentecost.
        I didn't say Pentecost. Paul doesn't tell us when any of the appearances mentioned in First Corinthians occurred. He gives zero details. So the alleged appearance to the five hundred at once could have happened on that first Easter Sunday or it could have happened the night before Paul wrote the fifteenth chapter of First Corinthians, in another of Paul's heavenly visions! We do not know.

        But if an appearance is what brought about James' conversion, then his appearance had to have happened within a short period of time after the death of Jesus because Acts says that he and Mary were already active in the Church. So we are asked to believe that all the appearances mentioned in First Corinthians occurred prior to Pentecost but the appearance to the Five Hundred happened after Pentecost, so that we are not obliged to include the 500 in the 120 total mentioned in Acts chapter one??

        The twisting and contorting of this story to hold it together is truly stupefying.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by psstein View Post
          You're far beyond any area of your competency when you make such a claim. There's good evidence for the 18 month-2 year time frame.

          You seem to think I care what you think. I care what scholars think. This is an area Nick (possibly far more than I am) and I are far better qualified in than you are.
          It was sarcasm, Stein.

          There is zero evidence to prove that this Creed existed within 18 months of Jesus death. Zero. It is merely scholarly guess work. Educated guesses are not good evidence for the supernatural claim of the reanimation and space voyage of a brain-dead body from the first century middle-east.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
            All that would depend on when Paul received the information. He certainly passed on the information after he received it, and he wrote the letter after he passed the information on.

            Who said it is a creed? A number of scholars believe it is creedAL - It might be a basis for a creed, it might be written in a style that makes it possible for use as a creedal statement, it might be part of a creed. What it is not, is a creed.

            No internal evidence suggests that it is interpolated.

            Nor would it necessarily be a reference to the scriptures we now have. Some have gone missing - and others, though extant, are not included in the Bibles of Protestantism, Rome, or Constantinople. It may be that they are included in the Bibles of other Orthodox Churches.

            These would be the twelve. The original 11 and Judas' replacement, to whom Jesus also appeared. At the time of writing he was one of the twelve. At the time of the appearance he wasn't.

            He couldn't have been resurrected if he hadn't died ... that should be self evident. Moreover, "Christ died for our sins" but he was raised for ...? the sake of several purposes, including that of conferring to opportunity to be purified.

            Acts 9:3-9 states that Paul heard a voice. It does not state that he saw Christ. Moreover, Paul's companions saw nothing, though they did hear a voice. It would seem that the event has witness verification that eliminates some sort of "in-the-head" event.

            No-one but Adam got tarred with Adam's sin. Old Testament records that the concept of generational punishment for sin is an affront to God. It is an established principle of scripture that each man is held accountable only for his own sins - and for the sins of no other.

            indubitibly.

            Atheists seem to like to read it that way - so do some churches. Given that σωμα (soma) is flesh, the πνευματικον σωμα (pneumatikon soma) spiritual body won't be just a spirit.

            Worst case scenario - there were 120 or more. Of course, the 120 were addressed by Peter - "in those days" not "at that time": so there is no direct connection between that event and the 500 spoken of by Paul. And I've never heard anyone consider the 500 to be a particularly important issue.
            "These would be the twelve. The original 11 and Judas' replacement, to whom Jesus also appeared. At the time of writing he was one of the twelve. At the time of the appearance he wasn't."

            Outrageous. You have zero proof that Jesus appeared to Mattias, Judas' replacement.
            Last edited by Gary; 09-18-2015, 02:24 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mikeenders View Post
              Unbelievable...You just talked about someone not having any common sense and then you post this seeming to think that "stood up among the believers" means all believers in Israel as if all of them were gathered from all the areas of Israel to this one meeting. SO since the passage indicates it was those in the upper room in Jerusalem continuing in one accord you think all believers all over Israel moved to Jerusalem and were staying in the upper room? You have another definition of common sense you need to tell us about?

              SMH
              You are obviously a moron.

              The passage doesn't say "some" of the believers or a "group" of the believers. All the believers were in Jerusalem. There is ZERO evidence of any established churches in other cities at this time. Jesus had told his followers to sell their possessions and to follow him. The entire lot of them, all 120, did just that, and were all in Jerusalem for the Passover feast. To suggest otherwise is to strain credulity even for someone as uneducated and ignorant as yourself.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                Yup - nothing in the Koine Greek leads naturally to the idea that "the disciples of Christ" numbered 120.
                Thank you O Great Greek scholar.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
                  Yep. Reading people in my field who know far better than I do and interacting with him. What hubris I possess.
                  No, you behave like an arrogant, condescending, pompous Edited by a Moderator. No respected NT scholar would stoop to your behavior, Nicky. Go back and read our debate. It was you who began the relentless personal attacks which encouraged the Jesus-loving Christian mob on this site to jump in. It was long into the discussion before I started flinging mud and names back.

                  Your childish behavior is a disgrace to Christian apologetics.

                  Moderated By: rogue06


                  Please refrain from using vulgar language as this is against the rules. Thanks.

                  ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
                  Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

                  Last edited by rogue06; 09-18-2015, 02:45 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Gary View Post
                    You are obviously a moron.

                    The passage doesn't say "some" of the believers or a "group" of the believers. All the believers were in Jerusalem. There is ZERO evidence of any established churches in other cities at this time. Jesus had told his followers to sell their possessions and to follow him. The entire lot of them, all 120, did just that, and were all in Jerusalem for the Passover feast. To suggest otherwise is to strain credulity even for someone as uneducated and ignorant as yourself.
                    What can you say to all that biblically illiterate nonsense but

                    DRINK!!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Gary View Post
                      No, you behave like an arrogant, condescending, pompous Edited by a Moderator. No respected NT scholar would stoop to your behavior, Nicky. Go back and read our debate. It was you who began the relentless personal attacks which encouraged the Jesus-loving Christian mob on this site to jump in. It was long into the discussion before I started flinging mud and names back.

                      Your childish behavior is a disgrace to Christian apologetics.
                      Me who began it? Yes. Well if you say personal attacks means you didn't read and interact with my data, but that's not a personal attack. That's a statement of fact. You would bring up points that I had already made a response to as if they were new and no, you're the one going around saying all you need is a high school education and common sense. That is personal attacks.

                      As for respected NT scholars, sorry, but respected NT scholars know of me already and support me.

                      http://deeperwaters.ddns.net/?page_id=7668

                      And you can see the list of those I've interviewed as well.

                      http://deeperwaters.ddns.net/?page_id=8421

                      I hold to actually interacting with the data. When I presented my interviews here, you did nothing with them an ignored them. You whine about how everyone else treats you and then do the exact same thing. Let's not forget the classic that if people don't answer on your timeframe, they're scared.

                      The pig is right. This thread is ample evidence.
                      Last edited by rogue06; 09-18-2015, 02:46 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mikeenders View Post
                        What can you say to all that biblically illiterate nonsense but

                        DRINK!!
                        DrinkMorticia.jpg

                        Comment


                        • Brain-dead bodies do not eat broiled fish sandwiches and then fly off into outer space, folks. It isn't real. It doesn't happen today and we have zero evidence that it has ever happened in all of human history. Resuscitations, yes. But that is why your local hospital has CPR classes. Resuscitations are not rare and are easily explained using natural laws. Resurrections are NOT resuscitations. All the healing claims and resuscitation claims in Craig Keener's book is NOT evidence for resurrections. Resurrections are not real. Resurrections are science fiction. Zombies are not real.

                          Jesus lived, preached, and was crucified. But he is dead. Get that through your brainwashed heads: Jesus is dead.

                          You can still call yourself a follower of Jesus, a Christian, and follow Jesus' humanistic teachings, but believing in resurrections makes you look like an ignorant moron. It is the twenty-first century, folks. It is time to put fairy tales and other supernatural tales in the fiction section of the library of your brain. These silly, nonsensical stories are NOT reality.

                          Comment


                          • It is so wonderful that Gary has come along to tell us that dead people stay dead. If only anyone had known that 2,000 years ago!

                            drinkjuice.jpg

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
                              Me who began it? Yes. Well if you say personal attacks means you didn't read and interact with my data, but that's not a personal attack. That's a statement of fact. You would bring up points that I had already made a response to as if they were new and no, you're the one going around saying all you need is a high school education and common sense. That is personal attacks.

                              As for respected NT scholars, sorry, but respected NT scholars know of me already and support me.

                              http://deeperwaters.ddns.net/?page_id=7668

                              And you can see the list of those I've interviewed as well.

                              http://deeperwaters.ddns.net/?page_id=8421

                              I hold to actually interacting with the data. When I presented my interviews here, you did nothing with them an ignored them. You whine about how everyone else treats you and then do the exact same thing. Let's not forget the classic that if people don't answer on your timeframe, they're scared.

                              The pig is right. This thread is ample evidence.
                              Maybe scholars who are members of your cult respect you, but expose your superstitious nonsense to educated secular society and they will laugh your pompous, arrogant, know-it-all, supernatural-invoking nerdy butt right out the proverbial door.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Gary View Post
                                Maybe scholars who are members of your cult respect you, but expose your superstitious nonsense to educated secular society and they will laugh your pompous, arrogant, know-it-all, supernatural-invoking nerdy butt right out the proverbial door.
                                No they won't. That's because scholars have these interactive discussions regularly. Go to a meeting of the SBL and this is the kind of stuff talked about. It's called debate.

                                drinkingapplecider.jpg

                                Comment

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