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Comment Thread for The Resurrection of Jesus - Apologiaphoenix vs Gary

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  • Originally posted by psstein View Post
    Read slowly, because literacy is tough:

    RESURRECTION IS NOT REANIMATION; THEY ARE DIFFERENT THINGS!

    Anybody even vaguely familiar with what resurrection is would know the difference. The other explanations for the empty tomb do not work. They assume things we have no evidence for. Dale Allison, a skeptical scholar who identifies as a deist, has said "we could suppose a necromancer stole Jesus' body, but we have no evidence for that conclusion."

    Neutral critics consider Harris' work a disaster. His book on free will was taken apart by Alfred Mele's work, and his attempt to ground moral values in science was roundly panned. Massimo Pigliucci indicated how problematic The Moral Landscape's approach was in his review.
    Yes, I am aware that Christians view the Resurrection as being different from a reanimation, however, you do believe that the original body of Jesus was brought back to life in some sense?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by psstein View Post
      But Michael Ruse is one of those EVUL accomodationists. Everyone KNOWS science and religion are in deep, irreconcilable conflict!
      Despite Michael Ruse debating Andy Bannister on a recent Unbelievable, everyone knows he's really a secret Christian.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Gary View Post
        Just because someone calls a substance "artificial sperm" means nothing unless they can cause a pregnancy. Once mankind can produce pregnancies without (male) human sperm, I will gladly acknowledge that artificial sperm can create a pregnancy. However, I will still deny that invisible ghost gods can impregnate human virgins with invisible ghost-god sperm, real or artificial.

        So you still need to prove that a "holy" ghost exists and that this ghost can produce sperm that causes conception in virgin human females.
        There's that word again. The term "ghost" is a strawman of your construction. Now I don't think you would appreciate it if your position was misidentified by a graphic like this.
        Attached Files
        “I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.” - C.S. Lewis

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Gary View Post
          Yes, I realize that the source has a bad word in it. I tried to make it a link that wouldn't show the word, but I couldn't figure out how to do it. So my option was to list the source or not list a source, which would have deeply upset Pig.
          It deeply upsets Pig that you copy/paste large quantities of rubbish whilst pretending it smells like roses. I'd ask you to find better material, but this thread shows that you lack the discernment necessary to accomplish that.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Gary View Post
            So how was Mary impregnated and with what? Magic, invisible, artificial ghost sperm?
            Did you read what he said? He mentioned cloning. It's a good point, a human life can be created through the manipulation of cells alone. Sperm isn't actually needed. I provided it as an example to show you that you were being stupid with your "It's impossible, you can't make life without sex" argument.
            “I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.” - C.S. Lewis

            Comment


            • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
              It deeply upsets Pig that you copy/paste large quantities of rubbish whilst pretending it smells like roses. I'd ask you to find better material, but this thread shows that you lack the discernment necessary to accomplish that.
              Gary's discernment:

              Does the source argue against Christianity?

              It's fair, neutral, intelligent, and rational.

              Does it argue for Christianity?

              It's by a bunch of deluded brainwashed anti-science wicked bigots.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Darth Ovious View Post
                Did you read what he said? He mentioned cloning. It's a good point, a human life can be created through the manipulation of cells alone. Sperm isn't actually needed. I provided it as an example to show you that you were being stupid with your "It's impossible, you can't make life without sex" argument.
                There are some theories that God just created a zygote ex nihilo or something. Or created some more DNA within an ovum. Either way, if a Being can create an entire universe, a zygote isn't a problem.
                If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
                  Gary's discernment:

                  Does the source argue against Christianity?

                  It's fair, neutral, intelligent, and rational.

                  Does it argue for Christianity?

                  It's by a bunch of deluded brainwashed anti-science wicked bigots.
                  I wonder if Gary would get along with Ingersoll?
                  If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                    Let's just say a person with a glorified body would have super powers compared to one's present mortal body.
                    I realize that Christians believe that Jesus' resurrected body had new, supernatural or divine powers, but was this resurrected body simply an "improved" form of the original body, with new powers, or a completely new body that somehow came out of the old body and the old body disappeared?

                    Comment


                    • The molecules in one's body change all the time, so it doesn't really matter that 100% of the molecules in one's glorified body be the same as one's mortal body. Considering one doesn't have the same molecules in one's body now as one had seven years ago...

                      Since Jesus had recently died, it would make sense that the present cells be transformed in to glorified body cells.
                      If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                        The molecules in one's body change all the time, so it doesn't really matter that 100% of the molecules in one's glorified body be the same as one's mortal body. Considering one doesn't have the same molecules in one's body now as one had seven years ago...

                        Since Jesus had recently died, it would make sense that the present cells be transformed in to glorified body cells.
                        Is that your opinion, or do you have a source?

                        My point is that if one believes that Jesus' original, human body was brought back to life wouldn't that in some sense involve the reanimation (the restoration of life) to the original tissues and organs? If you believe that Jesus' new, divine, resurrected body was not in any way related to the old body, then one can't really say that Jesus was "raised from the dead". His original body was still dead, but his spirit now inhabited a new, divine body.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Gary View Post
                          Is that your opinion, or do you have a source?

                          My point is that if one believes that Jesus' original, human body was brought back to life wouldn't that in some sense involve the reanimation (the restoration of life) to the original tissues and organs? If you believe that Jesus' new, divine, resurrected body was not in any way related to the old body, then one can't really say that Jesus was "raised from the dead". His original body was still dead, but his spirit now inhabited a new, divine body.
                          How would we really know what exactly happened? My little technobabble spiel is hypothetical. We don't know for sure how the Resurrection affects the cells and what happens.
                          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                            How would we really know what exactly happened? My little technobabble spiel is hypothetical. We don't know for sure how the Resurrection affects the cells and what happens.
                            But still was there any form of "reanimation" (reinstilling life to the tissue and organs) of the original human body of Jesus or did a new body arise out of the old body and the old body disappeared?

                            Comment


                            • Gary is correct.

                              If reanimation is taken to be a full restoration to life, reanimation and resurrection are synonymous.

                              Nor is there any reason to believe in a resurrection of anything other than the ordinary human body that existed prior to Jesus' death.
                              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                              .
                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                              Scripture before Tradition:
                              but that won't prevent others from
                              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                              of the right to call yourself Christian.

                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                                Gary is correct.

                                If reanimation is taken to be a full restoration to life, reanimation and resurrection are synonymous.

                                Nor is there any reason to believe in a resurrection of anything other than the ordinary human body that existed prior to Jesus' death.
                                We agree on something, Tabby?? Wow.

                                Here is how Matt Slick over at CARM describes a bodily resurrection:

                                I have heard it said that Jesus' physical body died but His spiritual body was raised. If this is so, then does the spiritual body consist of flesh and bones as well as the physical one? It makes no sense. Also, if Jesus did not rise physically, then what happened to His body? Was it dissolved? Was it moved somewhere? There is no Biblical account of what happened to Jesus' body other than that it was raised from the dead. Therefore, His body was raised from the dead.

                                My concept of resurrection is the same as Slick's. Do you disagree with Slick and me on this definition, Stein? If so, please explain how.

                                Comment

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