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  • Originally posted by Gary View Post
    What exactly is an "ex-homosexual", Nick? From a medical perspective, I was not aware that such an entity exists.
    Well yes - you've made it clear just how limited your awareness is.
    Deciding that you have the right to decide who may associate with whom.
    Unable to deal with simple hypotheticals.
    Unable to engage with reasoned points of debate.
    .
    .
    .
    sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

    Comment


    • Dear conservative Christians, specifically, Nick: No more appealing to the "majority scholarly" opinion. The farce is up. Your position on "ex-homosexuals" exposes your belief system for what it is: a superstition-based, Bronze Age, ignorant, bigoted cult. Your belief system is NOT based on modern scientific, or modern medical, expert opinion.

      The overwhelming majority of medical professionals do not believe that sexual orientation is a choice. A same-sex attracted person does NOT just decide one day to stop being attracted to the same sex. The "ex-homosexuals" you interviewed, Nick, were either bisexual or celibate homosexuals. You CANNOT turn a homosexual into a heterosexual. Your sick belief system is causing terrible psychological pain and torment for thousands of gay conservative Christians who so desperately want to be "normal" but no matter how much they pray and beg Jesus to "cure" them, he never seems willing to "heal" them of this "sin".

      Ask your "ex-homosexuals" if they fantasize about screwing women, and I'll bet you good money, Nicky, that if they are honest, they will admit that they still fantasize about sex with men.

      Jesus doesn't heal amputees, and, Jesus doesn't cure homosexuals. For some reason Jesus just doesn't have enough "omnipotence" to perform those miracles.

      I like the following video although I question the claim about birth order and homosexual orientation. I will have to research that, but the rest of the claims are supported by the overwhelming majority of medical professionals. All medical professional societies agree: Sexual orientation cannot be changed. There is no such thing as an "ex-homosexual". Nick and other conservative Christians who believe and preach that truly homosexual people can be turned straight are as ignorant as the preachers of times past who tried to exorcise demons out of people who were having epileptic seizures. These two beliefs are stupid and pathetic, both based on the morality and thinking of ancient, middle-eastern goat herders. Complete stupidity. This is why people of reason and good conscience must fight against your ancient superstition: It causes needless pain and suffering.

      Last edited by Gary; 09-06-2015, 02:40 AM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Gary View Post
        Dear conservative Christians, specifically, Nick: No more appealing to the "majority scholarly" opinion. The farce is up. Your position on "ex-homosexuals" exposes your belief system for what it is: a superstition-based, Bronze Age, ignorant, bigoted cult. Your belief system is NOT based on modern scientific, or modern medical, expert opinion.

        The overwhelming majority of medical professionals do not believe that sexual orientation is a choice. A same-sex attracted person does NOT just decide one day to stop being attracted to the same sex. The "ex-homosexuals" you interviewed, Nick, were either bisexual or celibate homosexuals. You CANNOT turn a homosexual into a heterosexual. Your sick belief system is causing terrible psychological pain and torment for thousands of gay conservative Christians who so desperately want to be "normal" but no matter how much they pray and beg Jesus to "cure" them, he never seems willing to "heal" them of this "sin".

        Ask your "ex-homosexuals" if they fantasize about screwing women, and I'll bet you good money, Nicky, that if they are honest, they will admit that they still fantasize about sex with men.

        Jesus doesn't heal amputees, and, Jesus doesn't cure homosexuals. For some reason Jesus just doesn't have enough "omnipotence" to perform those miracles.

        I like the following video although I question the claim about birth order and homosexual orientation. I will have to research that, but the rest of the claims are supported by the overwhelming majority of medical professionals. All medical professional societies agree: Sexual orientation cannot be changed. There is no such thing as an "ex-homosexual". Nick and other conservative Christians who believe and preach that truly homosexual people can be turned straight are as ignorant as the preachers of times past who tried to exorcise demons out of people who were having epileptic seizures. These two beliefs are stupid and pathetic, both based on the morality and thinking of ancient, middle-eastern goat herders. Complete stupidity. This is why people of reason and good conscience must fight against your ancient superstition: It causes needless pain and suffering.
        Seven Myths about Sexual Orientation

        Myth #6: A person’s sexual orientation is unchanging throughout their lifetime.

        Many people — perhaps most people — experience constancy in the preponderance of their emotional and physical attractions throughout their lifetime. But constancy is not the experience of everyone. There are at least two possibilities of how a person might experience a change in the preponderance of their attractions.

        First, research has shown that many youth who ultimately come out as gay experienced both opposite-sex and same-sex attractions during childhood and adolescence. But as time passed, the opposite-sex attractions faded or disappeared, and the same-sex attractions emerged as dominant or exclusive. Because of this developmental phenomenon, some youth identify initially as bisexual, but when opposite-sex attractions fade or disappear, they later identity as gay or lesbian.

        Second, whereas some people experience their emotional and physical attractions becoming more focused toward males or females over time, others have the opposite experience. Some adults who have historically experienced only same-sex or other-sex attractions find themselves having one or more experiences that expands their sexuality as they grow older. For example, a woman who has loved only women may fall in love with a man (probably to the confusion of her lesbian friends), and she may revise her sexual orientation identity from lesbian to mostly lesbian or bisexual.

        Might you be confused about your sexual orientation because you once were attracted to both sexes, but your attractions have become more focused? Or because your attractions have expanded beyond your historic sexual orientation identity as straight or gay/lesbian?

        Myth #7: A person can change their sexual orientation from gay to straight if they really want to.
        sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

        Comment


        • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
          Seven Myths about Sexual Orientation

          Myth #6: A person’s sexual orientation is unchanging throughout their lifetime.

          Many people — perhaps most people — experience constancy in the preponderance of their emotional and physical attractions throughout their lifetime. But constancy is not the experience of everyone. There are at least two possibilities of how a person might experience a change in the preponderance of their attractions.

          First, research has shown that many youth who ultimately come out as gay experienced both opposite-sex and same-sex attractions during childhood and adolescence. But as time passed, the opposite-sex attractions faded or disappeared, and the same-sex attractions emerged as dominant or exclusive. Because of this developmental phenomenon, some youth identify initially as bisexual, but when opposite-sex attractions fade or disappear, they later identity as gay or lesbian.

          Second, whereas some people experience their emotional and physical attractions becoming more focused toward males or females over time, others have the opposite experience. Some adults who have historically experienced only same-sex or other-sex attractions find themselves having one or more experiences that expands their sexuality as they grow older. For example, a woman who has loved only women may fall in love with a man (probably to the confusion of her lesbian friends), and she may revise her sexual orientation identity from lesbian to mostly lesbian or bisexual.

          Might you be confused about your sexual orientation because you once were attracted to both sexes, but your attractions have become more focused? Or because your attractions have expanded beyond your historic sexual orientation identity as straight or gay/lesbian?

          Myth #7: A person can change their sexual orientation from gay to straight if they really want to.
          What is your point? Yes, sexual orientation is not black and white. Everyone is not either straight or gay. There are many people whose orientation is somewhere in between those two positions. To one extent or another these people are bisexual, as your source says in Myth 1:

          Myth #1: A person is either straight or gay.

          Our culture likes to categorize people, and the categories it provides often do a poor job of capturing the diversity of the human experience. For example, we are sometimes asked to check a single box to indicate our ethnic identity, but this is an increasingly difficult task as multiethnic identities become increasingly common.

          When it comes to sexual orientation, many people are neither 100% straight nor 100% gay. Indeed, recent research indicates that, when given the option, many males and females would describe themselves as “mostly straight” rather than “straight.” Thus, we need to expand the number of categories we use when we think about the diversity of sexual orientations. The categories of straight, mostly straight, bisexual, mostly gay, and gay more accurately represent the diversity of sexual orientations than the categories of straight and gay.

          Gary: My point is that someone who is bisexual can choose to function only as a straight, but he or she is still bisexual, they will continue to have attractions to both genders. However, a gay person, someone who is exclusively attracted to people of his or her own sex, CANNOT decide to be attracted to persons of the opposite sex. If Nick claims to have met people who were once exclusively attracted to their same sex, but now claim to be exclusively attracted to the opposite sex, then either they or he are lying.
          Last edited by Gary; 09-06-2015, 11:47 AM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Gary View Post
            What is your point? Yes, sexual orientation is not black and white. Everyone is not either straight or gay. There are many people whose orientation is somewhere in between those two positions. To one extent or another these people are bisexual, as your source says in Myth 1:

            Myth #1: A person is either straight or gay.

            Our culture likes to categorize people, and the categories it provides often do a poor job of capturing the diversity of the human experience. For example, we are sometimes asked to check a single box to indicate our ethnic identity, but this is an increasingly difficult task as multiethnic identities become increasingly common.

            When it comes to sexual orientation, many people are neither 100% straight nor 100% gay. Indeed, recent research indicates that, when given the option, many males and females would describe themselves as “mostly straight” rather than “straight.” Thus, we need to expand the number of categories we use when we think about the diversity of sexual orientations. The categories of straight, mostly straight, bisexual, mostly gay, and gay more accurately represent the diversity of sexual orientations than the categories of straight and gay.

            Gary: My point is that someone who is bisexual can choose to function only as a straight, but he or she is still bisexual, they will continue to have attractions to both genders. However, a gay person, someone who is exclusively attracted to people of his or her own sex, CANNOT decide to be attracted to persons of the opposite sex. If Nick claims to have met people who were once exclusively attracted to their same sex, but now claim to be exclusively attracted to the opposite sex, then either they or he are lying.
            Myth #7: A person can change their sexual orientation from gay to straight if they really want to.

            Because the mix of emotional and physical attractions toward males and females can change over time for some people, anti-gay advocates have seized upon this phenomenon as “proof” that a gay person can become straight through certain interventions, usually a combination of prayer and “reparative therapy.”

            To be sure, a person can change their sexual behavior, regardless of their physical attractions. They can choose to be celibate or engage in sexual behavior only with people of the other sex. And sometimes a gay person becomes emotionally attached to someone of the other sex, loves them, and marries them, perhaps happily. For such individuals, physical attractions to persons of the same sex persist, however. But a person cannot change from having exclusive attractions to people of the same sex to having exclusive attractions to people of the other sex.

            Gary:

            Dear conservative Christians: Please STOP inflicting emotional stress and psychological trauma upon gay people. They cannot become straight. Their only option is celibacy.

            There is nothing wrong with same sex-attraction, same-sex sexual relationships, or same-sex life relationships. The belief that same-sex attraction and relationships is wrong is based not on scientific, medical, or psychiatric evidence, it is based solely on the rantings and ravings of ancient, superstitious, ignorant peoples.

            STOP DISCRIMINATING AGAINST OTHERWISE PEACEFUL, LAW-ABIDING PEOPLE DUE TO THE MUMBO-JUMBO OF AN ANCIENT BOOK!

            The same ancient holy book, which claims that an ancient Hebrew god is all-knowing, just, and good, states that slavery is acceptable and that homosexuals deserve severe punishment for their "evil" activities. No decent human being today believes that slavery in any form is acceptable and scientists and doctors do not believe that homosexual activities are wrong or unnatural.

            The god of the Bible is wrong! And if the god of the Bible is wrong about slavery and homosexuality, what are the chances that he is wrong about the claim that a bunch of first century peasants and one rabbi witnessed the first century reanimation of a dead Jewish prophet's body?? Use your Creator-given brains, folks! It's just a tall tale.
            Last edited by Gary; 09-06-2015, 12:04 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Gary View Post

              Gary: My point is that someone who is bisexual can choose to function only as a straight, but he or she is still bisexual, they will continue to have attractions to both genders. However, a gay person, someone who is exclusively attracted to people of his or her own sex, CANNOT decide to be attracted to persons of the opposite sex. If Nick claims to have met people who were once exclusively attracted to their same sex, but now claim to be exclusively attracted to the opposite sex, then either they or he are lying.
              The third option is that myth number 6 is indeed a myth, i.e.
              Myth #6: A person’s sexual orientation is unchanging throughout their lifetime.

              In simpler words: The claim that a person's sexual orientation is inevitably fixed for life is False.
              Last edited by tabibito; 09-06-2015, 11:54 AM.
              sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

              Comment


              • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                The third option is that myth number 6 is indeed a myth, i.e.
                Myth #6: A person’s sexual orientation is unchanging throughout their lifetime.

                In simpler words: The claim that a person's sexual orientation is inevitably fixed for life is False.
                So you are saying that you know more than the overwhelming majority of scientists, medical doctors, psychiatrists, and psychologists? Typical cult rationalization to maintain his belief system.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Gary View Post
                  So you are saying that you know more than the overwhelming majority of scientists, medical doctors, psychiatrists, and psychologists? Typical cult rationalization to maintain his belief system.

                  guess Psychology Today must now be a Christian organization since they are willing to entertain the possibility that sexuality is changeable

                  https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...t-unchangeable

                  do you ever have a good point? Meanwhile this is like your fourth (or fifth) subject of debate and you are flopping on all of them

                  You are like 0 for 4 now

                  Comment


                  • A few comments:

                    1. Drink! (I'd join, but after last night...)

                    2. If you can't read the original languages, you don't know what the text really says. You know what an interpretation of the text says. There are some good translations (NRSV, Young's Literal Translation, Jerusalem Bible, etc.), but they pale in comparison to the original languages.

                    The HEBREW does not require six, 24 hour days. It's actually rather vague as to what "one day" is. The 6000-10000 year figure comes from Bishop Ussher.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mikeenders View Post
                      guess Psychology Today must now be a Christian organization since they are willing to entertain the possibility that sexuality is changeable

                      https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...t-unchangeable

                      do you ever have a good point? Meanwhile this is like your fourth (or fifth) subject of debate and you are flopping on all of them

                      You are like 0 for 4 now
                      Did you read the entire article? What it is saying is that many people are bisexual. NO WHERE in the article does it say that someone who is ONLY attracted to persons of their own sex can be "converted" to be attracted to persons of the opposite sex. Here are the last two paragraphs to the article, which, by the way, is very good, and I encourage everyone to read: Bisexuality is much more pervasive than most people realize.

                      So, what does this all mean? Is sexual orientation fluid and/or changeable? Or are some gay and lesbian people really closeted bisexuals? A long time ago, Kinsey told us that bisexuality is much more prevalent than we think. However, we live in a society in which many people (including self-identifying gays and lesbians) don't quite believe in bisexuality. Maybe Anne Heche and some of the respondents in my study are being pressured to "pick one sex, dammit, and stick with it!" Is that what's happening?

                      Does it really matter?

                      If we truly believe that it is acceptable to have sexual and romantic relationships with the same sex, then it shouldn't matter whether or not sexual orientation is changeable. If it is really OK, we should be as accepting of a person who has a relationship with a man and then a woman as we would of someone who usually eats vanilla ice cream and then decides to start eating pistachio. So what? Sex between two consenting adults, like eating ice cream, should be about pleasure, personal preferences, or expressions of love and affection, not about social rules and definitions. However, in order to support the people in our lives who are struggling with their sexual orientations, we must reluctantly leave Utopia and remember that we live in a world that puts limits on people's sexual inclinations and punishes those who don't follow the rules. People of all sexual orientations (even those who don't claim one) need to find ways to live in a world that stigmatizes same-sex attractions and relationships, and those of us called upon to support and assist these people need to understand this if we are to be helpful.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by psstein View Post
                        A few comments:

                        1. Drink! (I'd join, but after last night...)

                        2. If you can't read the original languages, you don't know what the text really says. You know what an interpretation of the text says. There are some good translations (NRSV, Young's Literal Translation, Jerusalem Bible, etc.), but they pale in comparison to the original languages.

                        The HEBREW does not require six, 24 hour days. It's actually rather vague as to what "one day" is. The 6000-10000 year figure comes from Bishop Ussher.
                        Christians continue to "update" their interpretation of this ancient text. Isn't it odd that it is the interpretation of the Bible that must change to keep up with Science and not the other way around. Christians now tell us that Christians of centuries past simply misunderstood what God CLEARLY says in the Bible. Those silly, silly early Christians! If only they were as smart as people like Nick and Stein! So after two thousand years, we are now told that "day" does not literally mean "day". "Six" does not literally mean "six". Regarding the Flood, "earth" does not literally mean "earth", and "mountains" does not literally mean "mountains".

                        I'm waiting for the day when "resurrection" no longer literally means "resurrection" (a body being reanimated from the dead) but simply a resurrection of hope and joy in the hearts of those who loved Jesus.

                        Let's compare the Bible to Science...and see who wins!!!

                        Last edited by Gary; 09-06-2015, 08:49 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Gary View Post
                          Did you read the entire article? What it is saying is that many people are bisexual.
                          questions is can YOU read or do you even know how?

                          A) the article CLEARLY is open to the IDEA that sexuality can change. trumping yet again your as usual "beyond any doubt I am right" thesis.

                          B) speaking of nowhere NOWHERE did I state that the article said people change orientation but that the article IS open to the possibility. IF the science as you claim is all open and shut then Psychology Today would not even entertain the possibility.

                          C) if you think the article merely states that all such people are bisexual and nothing else you have fallen on your head.

                          D) you (and the article to a lesser degree) are perilously close to the fallacious no true scotsman gambit. If a person changes their sexuality you merely invoke them having been bisexual all the time since no true homosexual or heterosexual would change. Thats not the way science is done. Thats just the way to fudge the conclusions/interpretation when the data comes in not to your liking.

                          More testament to your inability to think rationally and debate an issue with intellectual honesty you quote the two closing paragraphs and rather purposefully blindly close you eyes to the sense of ambiguity the paragraphs expresses on the issue

                          but regardless of your purposeful blindness "maybe" "if" "is that what is happening?" is not the language of settled science so spare us the nonsense of claiming another view on the subject is "cult rationalization to maintain a belief system"

                          You are merely bluffing on what is settled science is as you earlier bluffed on you being the determinant of morality for God.
                          Last edited by Mikeenders; 09-06-2015, 08:50 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Gary View Post
                            There is no such thing as an "ex-homosexual".
                            Originally posted by Richard H. Reams, Ph.D.
                            Myth #6: A person’s sexual orientation is unchanging throughout their lifetime.
                            "A person's sexual orientation can't be changed" doesn't mean that it can't change: it just means that changes are not a matter of choice.

                            Originally posted by New Science Magazine (17 November 2014)
                            Study of gay brothers may confirm X chromosome link to homosexuality
                            But not everyone finds the results convincing. And the kind of DNA analysis used, known as a genetic linkage study, has largely been superseded by other techniques. Due to the limitations of this approach, the new work also fails to provide what behavioral geneticists really crave: specific genes that might underlie homosexuality.

                            Few scientists have ventured into this line of research. When the genetics of being gay comes up at scientific meetings, “sometimes even behavioral geneticists kind of wrinkle up their noses,” says Kenneth Kendler, a psychiatric geneticist at Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond. That’s partially because the science itself is so complex. Studies comparing identical and fraternal twins suggest there is some heritable component to homosexuality, but no one believes that a single gene or genes can make a person gay. Any genetic predispositions probably interact with environmental factors that influence development of a sexual orientation.
                            OK - there is possibly a genetic predisposition involved in homosexuality. Any predisposition resulting from an aberrant gene (or genes) that might exist is no more than a predisposition - it isn't preordained.
                            Last edited by tabibito; 09-06-2015, 09:17 PM.
                            sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Gary View Post
                              Christians continue to "update" their interpretation of this ancient text. Isn't it odd that it is the interpretation of the Bible that must change to keep up with Science and not the other way around.
                              earth to Gary Bishop Ussher is not part of the Bible


                              So after two thousand years, we are now told that "day" does not literally mean "day". "Six" does not literally mean "six". Regarding the Flood, "earth" does not literally mean "earth", and "mountains" does not literally mean "mountains".
                              good night man either go and educate yourself or have them ban you for intellectual dishonesty. Although I myself take Genesis one as pretty much literal alternate interpretations go back hundreds of years before modern science

                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allego...ons_of_Genesis

                              the above link should now be a fine test of your intellectual honesty. If you persist or cannot admit you were wrong in claiming alternate interpretations only came "after two thousand years " then we will all know finally and completely that you are a dishonest soul. The choice is up to you.

                              either way we already know yet again that when you talk about things you talk from ignorance not informed research

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mikeenders View Post
                                questions is can YOU read or do you even know how?

                                A) the article CLEARLY is open to the IDEA that sexuality can change. trumping yet again your as usual "beyond any doubt I am right" thesis.

                                B) speaking of nowhere NOWHERE did I state that the article said people change orientation but that the article IS open to the possibility. IF the science as you claim is all open and shut then Psychology Today would not even entertain the possibility.

                                C) if you think the article merely states that all such people are bisexual and nothing else you have fallen on your head.

                                D) you (and the article to a lesser degree) are perilously close to the fallacious no true scotsman gambit. If a person changes their sexuality you merely invoke them having been bisexual all the time since no true homosexual or heterosexual would change. Thats not the way science is done. Thats just the way to fudge the conclusions/interpretation when the data comes in not to your liking.

                                More testament to your inability to think rationally and debate an issue with intellectual honesty you quote the two closing paragraphs and rather purposefully blindly close you eyes to the sense of ambiguity the paragraphs expresses on the issue

                                but regardless of your purposeful blindness "maybe" "if" "is that what is happening?" is not the language of settled science so spare us the nonsense of claiming another view on the subject is "cult rationalization to maintain a belief system"

                                You are merely bluffing on what is settled science is as you earlier bluffed on you being the determinant of morality for God.
                                According to the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and the Association of American Psychologists you are dead wrong. And since you think you know more than all these scholars and experts combined, by Nick's own definition, you are an idiot. I do not debate idiots.

                                Comment

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