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Comment Thread for The Resurrection of Jesus - Apologiaphoenix vs Gary

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  • War sure stinks doesn't it? It would be great if everyone got along and didn't steal other people's stuff and sell their families into slavery. Living in ancient times really stunk. Aren't you glad/thankful you live in a place with all your physical needs met(presumably, for all I know you could be some poor guy that has to use a library to access the internet, but you wouldn't be this naive if you were that poor....)?
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
      How old are you? Because you are showing signs of strict black and white thinking typical of young teens. I suppose you've never heard of a moral hierarchy or of having to choose between two evils. Real life is complicated. You won't always have a happy thrid option.
      Yes, there are difficult decisions in life and there is a lot of gray. But I would bet that most people in western society today (your herd) would not include chasing down a three year old to slit his throat all for the purpose of pleasing your invisible deity, as one of those difficult, "gray area" decisions.

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      • Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
        Suicide bombing has nothing to do with tough moral dilemmas, you naive idealist.
        Killing people to please an invisible, imaginary deity. That is what both situations are about.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Gary View Post
          Yes, there are difficult decisions in life and there is a lot of gray. But I would bet that most people in western society today (your herd) would not include chasing down a three year old to slit his throat all for the purpose of pleasing your invisible deity, as one of those difficult, "gray area" decisions.
          What if it was ancient times and you had to kill his father for being a nomadic raiding jerk and the only other option was to leave him in the desert to starve/become a slave for some horrible slavemaster of a different nation? Keep in mind that ancient times didn't have resources to care for war orphans.
          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Gary View Post
            Killing people to please an invisible, imaginary deity. That is what both situations are about.
            More like killing people would keep putting your own lives in danger by stealing all your food. They couldn't just go to walmart and stock up.
            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Gary View Post
              Neither you nor I get to choose our herd. We were born into it. If you choose to start killing the children of the "wicked" your ass is going to be thrown in jail, whether you perceive your act to be immoral or not. The rules of the herd rule.
              and amusing to your point is the plain and obvious fact that your herd derived that rule by the very writings that give you the amakelites being killed. Despite your desperate attempt to rewrite history "herds" did not vote to get the morality our society now holds to. It was mostly dictated (from your perspective) by the few and passed on through the generations.

              I would say that the majority of people in our herd today would condemn as immoral the behavior of the ancient Israelites,
              the majority of the theistic world you live in would not condemn God taking lives because he does so every day. The actions of the ancient Israelites by themselves without the command of God are irrelevant. Further most of the theistic majority world you live in would condemn it as immoral because of a theistic decree that it is so under ALMOST all circumstances ( both in Old and new testament there being no change in morality as you allege - only different circumstances)
              Last edited by Mikeenders; 09-05-2015, 01:06 PM.

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              • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                But let's run a small exercise - just to see if you are capable of exercising logic and imagination:

                Can you think of anything that would justify a man chase down and pick up a 2 year old, then hurl him 10 feet through the air to land in a heap on the ground?
                Aaaand - he ignored the exercise to indulge in another rant.
                1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Gary View Post
                  Killing people to please an invisible, imaginary deity. That is what both situations are about.
                  You are floundering badly. The "I don't believe in God therefor he does not exist therefore all historical commands of God related to war and killing are immoral" argument is much too obviously circular to work with anyone of average intelligence.that may work on a skeptics board or an "I waz a christian" site but its not likely to move any theist.
                  Last edited by Mikeenders; 09-05-2015, 01:03 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                    What if it was ancient times and you had to kill his father for being a nomadic raiding jerk and the only other option was to leave him in the desert to starve/become a slave for some horrible slavemaster of a different nation? Keep in mind that ancient times didn't have resources to care for war orphans.
                    I would perform a citizen's arrest on his father, turn him over to the local nomadic sheriff, and then give the child something to eat and drink while sending a messenger to the local nomadic social services office to come and pick up the child to place in a nomadic foster home until the father had served his prison sentence.

                    :)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mikeenders View Post
                      and amusing to your point is the plain and obvious fact that your herd derived that rule by the very writings that give you the amakelites being killed. Despite your desperate attempt to rewrite history "herds" did not vote to get the morality our society now holds to. It was mostly dictated (from your perspective) by the few and passed on through the generations.



                      the majority of the theistic world you live in would not condemn God taking lives because he does so every day. The actions of the ancient Israelites by themselves without the command of God are irrelevant. Further most of the theistic majority world you live in would condemn it as immoral because of a theistic decree that it is so under ALMOST all circumstances ( both in Old and new testament there being no change in morality as you allege - only different circumstances)
                      Moral bans on killing the young of the herd has been a "herd rule" for most animal herds on the planet for millenia. The herds that did not follow this moral standard did not survive. This "moral" existed prior to the time when humans began inventing invisible deities.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Gary View Post
                        Moral bans on killing the young of the herd has been a "herd rule" for most animal herds on the planet for millenia. The herds that did not follow this moral standard did not survive.
                        To take just one example of how the instinct functions - the timber wolf pack has just one member that may execute another member of the pack. And that member will kill even a cub, if the need arises. Your argument fails.
                        With herbivores, the instincts of the carnivore that prevent killing members of their own herd are commonly not present. And what does this have to do with whether there is a moral cause to kill children anyway?
                        1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Gary View Post
                          Moral bans on killing the young of the herd has been a "herd rule" for most animal herds on the planet for millenia. The herds that did not follow this moral standard did not survive. This "moral" existed prior to the time when humans began inventing invisible deities.
                          Utter Nonsense. Cannibalism is a part of hundreds or species on our planet and they survived just fine.

                          Comment


                          • It is very easy for theists to talk about killing children in the abstract, let's look at it with our eyes, and let your brain tell you if this act is ever justifiable:



                            Massacre of the Innocents, Rubens.jpg

                            Comment


                            • But let's run a small exercise - just to see if you are capable of exercising logic and imagination:

                              Can you think of anything that would justify a man chase down and pick up a 2 year old, then hurl him 10 feet through the air to land in a heap on the ground?

                              Should I take it that this question is beyond your ability to answer?
                              1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                              Comment


                              • rofl...did he really just try to use a painting to depict the reality of killing children?

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