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  • Originally posted by Gary View Post
    Your logic and reasoning are very twisted. This is evidence of the severe mental damage that your cult's brainwashing does to the brains of young, impressionable children. I am working to expose and debunk your cult so that future generations of young people do not grow up to have the deluded, immoral thinking that you unfortunately do.
    You're so willfully blind that you can't even see your own logic being used against you.
    I guarantee you that if any nonbeliever (other than Red Sea) reads this thread he or she will find your explanations for excusing Yahweh's immoral behavior as repugnant, appalling, and extremely immoral.
    It might help you make your case if you quit making outrageous claims. Your posts here frequently remind me of Cow Poke's hypothetical preacher who writes in his sermon notes "weak point - yell louder!"
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cornell View Post
      All I see is here a big 'nuh uh' and BS rhetoric. You will always fail to debunk what you THINK you are debunking, because you are so incredibly ignorant of the options available to Christians

      You are in no moral position to make moral complaints, because according to your BS worldview you are nothing more than matter in motion who is a result of a cosmic accident. All your moral complaints are just emotions due to matter fizzing one way rather another, and I devote my life to showing everyone how incredibly stupid atheism is and how every atheist who denies moral nihilism lives in a delusion.

      You have no purpose to your existence, no foundations for your moral claims, no reason to get up out of bed every morning and live a life as if you have some magical purpose. You have no significance at all to the universe, so by all means start acting like it

      Your views on reality are incredibly asinine and hopefully one day you will try to be skeptical of a world without a necessary consciousness being the creator and sustainer of physical existence.

      Try using at least one quarter of the skepticism you have of Theism and apply it to atheism and I will guarantee that you will be a Theist.
      Dear Cornell,

      I have news for you, sir. The majority of the people in this country and in western civilization do have a standard of morality that is not linked to any particular religion. Punishing people for thought crimes is considered immoral and unethical. Your alleged god commits these crimes against humanity every day. If he were a human being we would put him on trial in The Hague, lock him up in prison, and never let him out.

      The reason you cannot see this is that you are a brainwashed member of this fundamentalist cult. Your morality has been twisted and contorted to the point that you are blinded to how evil and vile your world view truly is. Your fundamentalist worldview is under increasing scrutiny and criticism by all moral people, religious and non-religious, and this is why membership in your cult is dropping dramatically every year in North America and Europe. One day I hope you will see the perversion of your worldview and abandon it, but even if you don't, I am certain that my efforts and those of other secular humanists will dramatically reduce the chances that your children and grandchildren will be followers and adherents of this barbaric ancient fable.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cornell View Post
        So who died and made you the dictator of my life to which you think you can tell me what I should and shouldn't do? I can teach what I think is right just as you can, so you can stop it with this fascist mentality of yours.

        And why is it that on the one hand you complain about Christians who believe in a literal Hell and the next minute you are upset when Christians have a different stance than each other and come up with their own opinions?

        Is it possible for you to make up your mind?

        There are many denominations because Christians are free thinkers, and CHALLENGE their superiors, that's not my problem.

        God wants people to think and challenge each other, that's not my problem

        So what is good for the goose is good for the gander, and I can easily turn your argument against you and use it to my advantage.
        Your deluded logic escapes me, sir.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          You're so willfully blind that you can't even see your own logic being used against you.

          It might help you make your case if you quit making outrageous claims. Your posts here frequently remind me of Cow Poke's hypothetical preacher who writes in his sermon notes "weak point - yell louder!"
          I am fighting a very entrenched cult whose followers have been brainwashed to believe that an invisible supernatural being, who threatens them with some form of punishment for not loving and obeying him, is good, moral, just, and loving. I am trying to rescue you, and if not you, then your children and grandchildren; allowing future generations of human beings to grow up in a world free of the fear of invisible, vindictive, ghost gods and ghost devils.

          Comment


          • I have news for you, sir. The majority of the people in this country and in western civilization do have a standard of morality that is not linked to any particular religion.
            Touching naivete. The majority of people act in accord with what seems to be a good story。Whether religious or political - if you can dress an evil up to make it look virtuous - give the majority of people a good enough story - that majority will act as if it the evil is good or at least acceptable - and believe it. If you can throw them victims with a plausible story of why they shouldn't be given a fair go, they won't be given a fair go. That's what has given everything from poverty line wages, to pro-choice, to slavery, to Nazism (and yes, crusaders) its power.
            News services slant stories to favour right or left wing policies depending on what will bring in the greater profit. Facts and the promotion of justice come a poor second in their considerations, and news services DO deliberately slant stories in the full knowledge that the action will serve to modify popular opinion. Bread and circuses work because the majority of people will simply accept the diversion without considering ethical issues.

            Punishing people for thought crimes is considered immoral and unethical.
            Really? Thought crimes don't play out in reality. Your current advocacy that Christians engage in insurrection against our God is not a thought crime.

            Your alleged god commits these crimes against humanity every day.
            God does not interfere in human affairs except through the services of Secretaries (as of Secretaries of State, of the Interior etc) otherwise termed Commissioners.

            If he were a human being we would put him on trial in The Hague, lock him up in prison, and never let him out.
            Says he who considers that kind of punishment cruel, vicious, and unethical.

            The reason you cannot see this is that you are a brainwashed member of this fundamentalist cult. Your morality has been twisted and contorted to the point that you are blinded to how evil and vile your world view truly is. Your fundamentalist worldview is under increasing scrutiny and criticism by all moral people, religious and non-religious, and this is why membership in your cult is dropping dramatically every year in North America and Europe.
            Mere empty rhetoric. Christians are not immune to this kind of clap-trap by any means, but are to some extent inoculated against more transparent forms such as this.

            One day I hope you will see the perversion of your worldview and abandon it, but even if you don't, I am certain that my efforts and those of other secular humanists will dramatically reduce the chances that your children and grandchildren will be followers and adherents of this barbaric ancient fable.
            With this salutary example of unreasoning hatred and vitriolic contemnation to bolster our case? Hardly. Declining church attendance results not from adherence to, but to abandonment of, core doctrines. You can take scant comfort from the decline in church attendance, because attendance at mosques and the like is increasing almost commensurately. People aren't embracing secularism, they are rejecting what passes for Christianity.
            Last edited by tabibito; 08-27-2015, 09:08 PM.
            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
            .
            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
            Scripture before Tradition:
            but that won't prevent others from
            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
            of the right to call yourself Christian.

            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

            Comment


            • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
              Touching naivete. The majority of people act in accord with what seems to be a good story。Whether religious or political - if you can dress an evil up to make it look virtuous - give the majority of people a good enough story - that majority will act as if it the evil is good or at least acceptable - and believe it. If you can throw them victims with a plausible story of why they shouldn't be given a fair go, they won't be given a fair go. That's what has given everything from poverty line wages, to pro-choice, to slavery, to Nazism its power.
              News services slant stories to favour right or left wing policies depending on what will bring in the greater profit. Facts and the promotion of justice come a poor second in their considerations, and news services DO deliberately slant stories in the full knowledge that the action will serve to modify popular opinion. Bread and circuses work because the majority of people will simply accept the diversion without considering ethical issues.

              Really? Thought crimes don't play out in reality. Your current advocacy that Christians engage in insurrection against our God is not a thought crime.

              God does not interfere in human affairs except through the services of Secretaries (as of Secretaries of State, of the Interior etc) otherwise termed Commissioners.

              Says he who considers that kind of punishment cruel, vicious, and unethical.

              Mere empty rhetoric. With this salutary example of unreasoning hatred and vitriolic contemnation to bolster our case? Hardly.
              My hatred is of religious fundamentalism and its brutal victimization of billions of people over the last 2,000 years and still today. I do not hate Christians, Muslims, or any other group of people. I pity them and seek to help them see their cults for what they really are: their abusers.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Gary View Post
                My hatred is of religious fundamentalism and its brutal victimization of billions of people over the last 2,000 years and still today. I do not hate Christians, Muslims, or any other group of people. I pity them and seek to help them see their cults for what they really are: their abusers.
                Keep telling yourself that - maybe one day you'll believe it, O crusader. You're the typical anti~ ideologue, promoting nothing worthwhile, and indulging in the lust to strike out at whoever happens to be in the stocks (provided of course, that you can convince yourself that they deserve it). In your zeal, you fail to notice that Christians have been at the forefront of some of the most significant social advances in history. Banning child labour, introduction of free education, spearheading anti-slavery action (underground railroad and support for the freedom riders being notable contributions.) And most often, those Christians at the forefront have done so at risk of ostracism and threat even to their lives from church and state. While Christians were instrumental in bringing the slave trade to an end in the West, the slave trades in the Middle East and Africa (where Christianity does not have so much influence) continue until now as a thriving industry. Your own freedom to throw public tantrums in safety is largely an outcome of actions, often at considerable personal risk, by Christians.
                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                .
                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                Scripture before Tradition:
                but that won't prevent others from
                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                Comment


                • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                  Keep telling yourself that - maybe one day you'll believe it, O crusader. You're the typical anti~ ideologue, promoting nothing worthwhile, and indulging in the lust to strike out at whoever happens to be in the stocks (provided of course, that you can convince yourself that they deserve it). In your zeal, you fail to notice that Christians have been at the forefront of some of the most significant social advances in history. Banning child labour, introduction of free education, spearheading anti-slavery action (underground railroad and support for the freedom riders being notable contributions.) And most often, those Christians at the forefront have done so at risk of ostracism and threat even to their lives from church and state. While Christians were instrumental in bringing the slave trade to an end in the West, the slave trades in the Middle East and Africa (where Christianity does not have so much influence) continue until now as a thriving industry. Your own freedom to throw public tantrums in safety is largely an outcome of actions, often at considerable personal risk, by Christians.
                  Keep deluding yourself, Tabby. However, the educated world is now seeing your belief system for what it is: a dangerous superstition. That is why membership in your religion is plummeting in the educated areas of the planet. I predict that within another 25 years, half of the churches in your city or town will be boarded up or used as restaurants or museums.

                  Comment


                  • Anyone wanting the facts can find them with a simple google of "church empty mosques filling" as a suitable jump off point. People aren't abandoning religion, o crusader, they're abandoning what passes for Christianity in favour of alternative religions. Predominantly Islam.
                    Last edited by tabibito; 08-27-2015, 10:39 PM.
                    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                    .
                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                    Scripture before Tradition:
                    but that won't prevent others from
                    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                    of the right to call yourself Christian.

                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                      Anyone wanting the facts can find them with a simple google of "church empty mosques filling" as a suitable jump off point. People aren't abandoning religion, o crusader, they're abandoning what passes for Christianity in favour of alternative religions. Predominantly Islam.
                      I don't see Islam growing among educated native-born North Americans and Europeans either. The largest growing class in religious affiliation polls is the "nons" of which I am one.
                      Last edited by Gary; 08-27-2015, 11:51 PM.

                      Comment


                      • There are certainly a number of factors involved in the matter of increasing and declining numbers: however, the number of religious adherents actually shifting to the atheistic ideology is negligible by comparison with those who are shifting to alternative religions.
                        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                        .
                        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                        Scripture before Tradition:
                        but that won't prevent others from
                        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                        of the right to call yourself Christian.

                        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                        Comment


                        • Gary, when you're ready to discuss scholarship and intellectual work, I'll be here. Right now, you're a fundy atheist spouting nonsense. I have no time for it.

                          I've seen most of your arguments propounded by much more competent writers/philosophers. I'm not interested in arguments from outrage/emotion. I am interested in actual dialogue, rather than canards about delusion or control.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                            There are certainly a number of factors involved in the matter of increasing and declining numbers: however, the number of religious adherents actually shifting to the atheistic ideology is negligible by comparison with those who are shifting to alternative religions.
                            None doesn't mean atheism. It means "spiritual but not religious" in most cases.

                            I shifted to a different religion. I'm not counted by the original denomination, but I'm now counted by another.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by psstein View Post
                              None doesn't mean atheism. It means "spiritual but not religious" in most cases.

                              I shifted to a different religion. I'm not counted by the original denomination, but I'm now counted by another.
                              Ah - thankee.
                              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                              .
                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                              Scripture before Tradition:
                              but that won't prevent others from
                              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                              of the right to call yourself Christian.

                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Gary View Post
                                Dear Cornell,

                                I have news for you, sir. The majority of the people in this country and in western civilization do have a standard of morality that is not linked to any particular religion. Punishing people for thought crimes is considered immoral and unethical. Your alleged god commits these crimes against humanity every day. If he were a human being we would put him on trial in The Hague, lock him up in prison, and never let him out.

                                The reason you cannot see this is that you are a brainwashed member of this fundamentalist cult. Your morality has been twisted and contorted to the point that you are blinded to how evil and vile your world view truly is. Your fundamentalist worldview is under increasing scrutiny and criticism by all moral people, religious and non-religious, and this is why membership in your cult is dropping dramatically every year in North America and Europe. One day I hope you will see the perversion of your worldview and abandon it, but even if you don't, I am certain that my efforts and those of other secular humanists will dramatically reduce the chances that your children and grandchildren will be followers and adherents of this barbaric ancient fable.
                                Dear Gary,

                                If there is no God then you are nothing but a conglomerate of pointless matter that came from stardust (as Carl Sagan puts it) and you are a cosmic accident like everyone else.

                                Therefore your moral opinions as just as arbitrary and meaningless as everyone else, and your subjective moral stance amounts to matter 'fizzing' one way rather than another way.

                                So stop pretending that you are significant to the universe, because you aren't. Your life is just as valuable to the universe as a cockroach.

                                You can pretend that you are 'special matter' but that is as far as it goes. Your thoughts of being special are just brain states, and are ultimately a delusion to help you survive so the mindless evolutionary process can do its thing.

                                The end

                                Comment

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