Comment Thread for The Resurrection of Jesus - Apologiaphoenix vs Gary

[Christianbookworm]

But if that is reality, what point in there to complain about it? A child may not be happy to find out that Christmas is an adult construct; that there is no Santa Claus or reindeer, but his intense desire for those things to be real doesn't change the fact that they are not.

It wouldn't matter at all. Why do you bother complaining about our beliefs if it won't matter in a trillion years. Here's a familiar thought experiment. It only matters if I'm right. Of course, that's just comparing two worldviews, but the point still stands. If there is no God, shouldn't you just go eat, drink and be merry for this life is all you get and stop wasting your time with people who disagree with you? If Jesus is deity incarnate and rose from the dead in an imperishable body, then I have a very good reason to care that someone doesn't believe. It's a matter of eternal life. Of course, if you don't wish to be in a utopia ruled by Jesus, He wont force you to live in it. Enjoy the outer darkness!

[Gary]

It wouldn't matter at all. Why do you bother complaining about our beliefs if it won't matter in a trillion years. Here's a familiar thought experiment. It only matters if I'm right. Of course, that's just comparing two worldviews, but the point still stands. If there is no God, shouldn't you just go eat, drink and be merry for this life is all you get and stop wasting your time with people who disagree with you? If Jesus is deity incarnate and rose from the dead in an imperishable body, then I have a very good reason to care that someone doesn't believe. It's a matter of eternal life. Of course, if you don't wish to be in a utopia ruled by Jesus, He wont force you to live in it. Enjoy the outer darkness!

If the (conservative) Christian belief system were something like the belief in Santa Claus, I wouldn't waste a single second fighting against it.

But no one has ever used their belief in Santa Claus to burn people at the stake; drown women accused of being witches; or slaughter entire peoples during "holy crusades" or under the belief of "Manifest Destiny" for being "sinful heathen". No one has every conducted a pogrom against Jews in the name of Santa; no one has discriminated against gays and lesbians because Santa says their lifestyle is an "abomination".

I fight against your belief system because I believe it is dangerous, deadly, and one of the greatest evils on the planet.

[Adrift]

D'Souza's a hot mess now, but I still love his reply to Dennett here,

https://youtu.be/BzUUnjcTkQg?t=371

[tabibito]

If the (conservative) Christian belief system were something like the belief in Santa Claus, I wouldn't waste a single second fighting against it.

But no one has ever used their belief in Santa Claus to burn people at the stake; drown women accused of being witches; or slaughter entire peoples during "holy crusades" or under the belief of "Manifest Destiny" for being "sinful heathen". No one has every conducted a pogrom against Jews in the name of Santa; no one has discriminated against gays and lesbians because Santa says their lifestyle is an "abomination".

I fight against your belief system because I believe it is dangerous, deadly, and one of the greatest evils on the planet.

Yep - Ideologue, and preaching hatred.

[Christianbookworm]

If the (conservative) Christian belief system were something like the belief in Santa Claus, I wouldn't waste a single second fighting against it.

But no one has ever used their belief in Santa Claus to burn people at the stake; drown women accused of being witches; or slaughter entire peoples during "holy crusades" or under the belief of "Manifest Destiny" for being "sinful heathen". No one has every conducted a pogrom against Jews in the name of Santa; no one has discriminated against gays and lesbians because Santa says their lifestyle is an "abomination".

I fight against your belief system because I believe it is dangerous, deadly, and one of the greatest evils on the planet.

And how many of those things were condoned by Jesus/God? And you have no clue of all the other factors with humans always being horrid to their fellow man and looking for any justification for their actions. Just because some people misuse/abuse Christianity for their evil purposes does not make Christianity true or false.

[One Bad Pig]

If the (conservative) Christian belief system were something like the belief in Santa Claus, I wouldn't waste a single second fighting against it.

But no one has ever used their belief in Santa Claus to burn people at the stake; drown women accused of being witches; or slaughter entire peoples during "holy crusades" or under the belief of "Manifest Destiny" for being "sinful heathen". No one has every conducted a pogrom against Jews in the name of Santa; no one has discriminated against gays and lesbians because Santa says their lifestyle is an "abomination".

I fight against your belief system because I believe it is dangerous, deadly, and one of the greatest evils on the planet.

As opposed to the benevolence of atheism as embodied in Josef Stalin, Mao Zedong and Pol Pot?

Christianity is also responsible for the creation of hospitals and universities. Are you going to fight against those too?

[Gary]

Yep - Ideologue, and preaching hatred.

I don't hate conservative Christians. I feel sorry for them. I hate the cult belief system that has them under its spell.

[Gary]

And how many of those things were condoned by Jesus/God? And you have no clue of all the other factors with humans always being horrid to their fellow man and looking for any justification for their actions. Just because some people misuse/abuse Christianity for their evil purposes does not make Christianity true or false.

I didn't say I could prove Christianity true or false just as I can't prove if the God of the Old Testament exists or doesn't exist. But I can say that by the moral standards prevalent in Western society today, if Yahweh does exist, he is an immoral, evil, baby-slaughtering monster.

[Gary]

As opposed to the benevolence of atheism as embodied in Josef Stalin, Mao Zedong and Pol Pot?

Christianity is also responsible for the creation of hospitals and universities. Are you going to fight against those too?

I am not an atheist so you will have to take that argument up with them.

Conservative Islam is responsible for the creation of hospitals and universities too, that does not mean the belief system itself is good or beneficial as a whole.

I believe that religion has served its purpose. It provided the ancients with a system of giving some order to a scary, very dangerous world. But now it's time to move on: to secular humanism. The next step in the advancement of humankind.

[Christianbookworm]

I didn't say I could prove Christianity true or false just as I can't prove if the God of the Old Testament exists or doesn't exist. But I can say that by the moral standards prevalent in Western society today, if Yahweh does exist, he is an immoral, evil, baby-slaughtering monster.

Argument by outrage?

[One Bad Pig]

I am not an atheist so you will have to take that argument up with them.

Yes, you are. Your arguments here, such as they are, make that abundantly clear.

Conservative Islam is responsible for the creation of hospitals and universities too, that does not mean the belief system itself is good or beneficial as a whole.

You misapprehend what I'm saying. Christianity came up with the concepts of hospitals and universities.

I believe that religion has served its purpose. It provided the ancients with a system of giving some order to a scary, very dangerous world. But now it's time to move on: to secular humanism. The next step in the advancement of humankind.

Yep, you're an atheist. The least you could do is own up to that.

[Christianbookworm]

Yes, you are. Your arguments here, such as they are, make that abundantly clear.

You misapprehend what I'm saying. Christianity came up with the concepts of hospitals and universities.

Yep, you're an atheist. The least you could do is own up to that.

He's an agnostic atheist? He thinks there is no God, but he's not 100% sure and his worst nightmare is that God does exist.

[One Bad Pig]

He's an agnostic atheist? He thinks there is no God, but he's not 100% sure and his worst nightmare is that God does exist.

If he thinks God might exist, then why would he deliberately throw away his salvation? If God exists, he's now in a world of trouble.

[Christianbookworm]

If he thinks God might exist, then why would he deliberately throw away his salvation? If God exists, he's now in a world of trouble.

That's why God is his worst nightmare! You do not want to antagonize Jesus.

[Gary]

If he thinks God might exist, then why would he deliberately throw away his salvation? If God exists, he's now in a world of trouble.

God may exist, but definitely not Yahweh. The baby-slaughtering, vindictive, tempermental Yahweh is the obvious invention of Bronze Age, superstitious, middle-eastern nomads. He is no more real than Zeus or Jupiter.