Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Commentary thread - Hakeem vs. Boxing Pythagoras - did Jesus die on the cross?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bill the Cat
    replied
    Originally posted by Hakeem View Post
    Bill the Cat writing " The word used in Luk 23:55 is *so'-mah, which is simply means "body" is true which can mean dead body or living body depending on the context. So had Jesus been dead and resurrected, the greek word always used for dead body (i.e. Ptoma), so had Jesus body been dead, PTOMA would have been used when Jesus body was laid in the tomb in Luke 23:55.
    That is not how any of this works...

    Leave a comment:


  • Christianbookworm
    replied
    He's ignoring me.... Does he know about superheroes with healing factors? Because Jesus wasn't some superhero with the super power of recovering from crucifixion! I don't think being the incarnate Son of God counts as a super power.

    Leave a comment:


  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Hakeem, at some point you really need to start questioning why the sources you are relying on get just about everything so abysmally wrong
    I'm beginning to suspect that Hakeem doesn't have the tools to understand just how far off-base he is.

    Leave a comment:


  • Same Hakeem
    replied
    Rogue06 writing " Hakeem, at some point you really need to start questioning why the sources you are relying on get just about everything so abysmally wrong" is interesting and needs to be clarified that the Bible reports (1) how eyewitnesses (Pilate and women) viewed and (2) how non-eye witnesses (disciples) viewed Jesus and (3) how Jesus acted post Jesus trial.

    We need to rely on eyewitnesses reactions in words and deeds and Jesus own behaviours in order to decide if he really died or not.

    Leave a comment:


  • Same Hakeem
    replied
    Bill the Cat writing " The word used in Luk 23:55 is *so'-mah, which is simply means "body" is true which can mean dead body or living body depending on the context. So had Jesus been dead and resurrected, the greek word always used for dead body (i.e. Ptoma), so had Jesus body been dead, PTOMA would have been used when Jesus body was laid in the tomb in Luke 23:55.

    Leave a comment:


  • Same Hakeem
    replied
    One Bad Pig writing " Even the rare crucifixion victim taken down from the cross before dying was exceedingly likely to die anyway, as Josephus attests" is not relevant to Jesus case because Jesus was on the cross for less than half a day (i.e. 9 hours) where typical crucifxion takes three days. Therefore, Pilate was surprised to hear that Jesus died. Also, Pilate doubted the alleged death of Jesus and therefore asked for confirmation IF he was dead. Mark 15:44. Mark 15:45 only tells us that* he confirmed. However, we are not told what he confirmed.

    *One Bad Pig writing "and that's without taking a killing spear thrust as Jesus did" is true but the fact is that "Blood and water gushed out" proving that his heart was still pumbing and hence he did not die at all. Also, when Jesus body was laid in the tomb in Luke 23:55, the greek word always used for dead body (i.e. Ptoma), so had Jesus body been dead, PTOMA would have been used.

    What shows Jesus did not die at all is Jesus behaviors after he came out from tomb. Had really been dead and rise immortally (i.e. resurrected), Jesus SHOULD appeared in his flesh in 40 days before ascention even ONCE to one of his alleged killers of the Jews because Jesus came to the sinners not the righteous in Mark 2:17. But he appeared only to disciples, women and 500 brethren.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Hakeem, at some point you really need to start questioning why the sources you are relying on get just about everything so abysmally wrong

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill the Cat
    replied
    Originally posted by Hakeem View Post
    Bill the Cat writing " Mark 15:45 uses the Greek term πτῶμα (ptōma), which is always used to describe a corpse or a carcass - NEVER a living person" is irrelevant because what matters is the fact that the greek word used for Jesus body when laid in the tomb in Luke 23:55 is not PTOMA. Had Jesus been really dead, thd word ptoma that means always dead body should have been used.
    The word used in Luk 23:55 is *so'-mah, which is simply means "body". You have lost badly. You really should stop while you are behind. You are just making a fool of yourself.

    Leave a comment:


  • Christianbookworm
    replied
    I've heard of super heroes being compared to Jesus, but it's even sillier when people end up giving Jesus super powers in order to claim He didn't really rise from the dead. Pro tip, Jesus is infinitely more awesome than any fictional hero.

    Leave a comment:


  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Originally posted by Hakeem View Post
    Mossrose writing "Blood and serum flowing separately IS a sign that death has occurred" is not true because had Jesus been dead, the greek term (PTOMA) always used for dead body should have used when the body of Jesus was laid in Luke 23:55.
    You really should quit while you're behind. You're picking nits - badly. Even the rare crucifixion victim taken down from the cross before dying was exceedingly likely to die anyway, as Josephus attests - and that's without taking a killing spear thrust as Jesus did.

    Leave a comment:


  • Same Hakeem
    replied
    Mossrose writing "Blood and serum flowing separately IS a sign that death has occurred" is not true because had Jesus been dead, the greek term (PTOMA) always used for dead body should have used when the body of Jesus was laid in Luke 23:55.

    Leave a comment:


  • Christianbookworm
    replied
    So... you're going with the "Jesus is a Mutant theory"

    Leave a comment:


  • Same Hakeem
    replied
    Bill the Cat writing " Mark 15:45 uses the Greek term πτῶμα (ptōma), which is always used to describe a corpse or a carcass - NEVER a living person" is irrelevant because what matters is the fact that the greek word used for Jesus body when laid in the tomb in Luke 23:55 is not PTOMA. Had Jesus been really dead, thd word ptoma that means always dead body should have been used.

    Leave a comment:


  • Same Hakeem
    replied
    Bill the Cat writing "Pilate wasn't there at the crucifixion, so he would have not known that Jesus had died" is a mere unsupported assumption.

    Bill the Cat writing "The Bible says He breathed His last" is true that he breathed his last but does mean he died in this regard because had Jesus been really dead, Pilate would have not been surprised to hear Jesus died and would have not doubted his death as he asked for confirmation IF he was dead, according to Mark 15:44. Confirmation would have NOT been requested, had Jesus been dead. Pilate doubt is because it is common that the victim of the crucifxion lives for days.

    Bill the Cat writing "If you are at all consistent, if you accept the words of Luke 22:44 as true, then you must also accept 23:46 where it says He breathed His last.That has nothing to do with Pilate's surprise" is wrong because had Jesus been really dead, Pilate would not have doubted and would not have been surprised to hear that Jesus that is "It was not common for persons crucified to expire under two or three days, sometimes not until the sixth or seventh." ( Barnes Notes on the Bible on Mark 15:44 at biblehub.com)

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by Hakeem View Post
    The answer to the question of Bill the Cat "Since you choose to take the Bible as true in Luke 22:44, then why do you doubt Luke 23:46?" lies in the fact that after all abuses and tortures Jesus received in his trial and after his cry out and after the spear thrust, Pilate was surprised to hear that Jesus died in Mark 15:44 and was in doubt of his alleged death; therefore, Pilate asked the centurion to confirm if he was dead in Mark 15:44. Had Jesus been really dead, Pilate would have not doubted and asked the centurion to confirm IF he was dead.

    In Mark 15:45, we are told "after he confirmed, he granted his body to Joseph" Mark 15:45 tells he confirmed but does not tell us what he confirmed.

    The answer to Sparko request "Show where this prayer was granted" is in Jesus own words in Matthew 7:7 "ask and it will be given to you"

    The answer to Sparko question "Why do you only accept certain verses of the bible in isolation and reject the rest of the bible that clearly says that Jesus was crucified, died and was resurrected?" is not true. The fact is that when we read the accounts of Jesus trial together, it is evident that he did not die at all and all the Bible does is reporting what others (eyewitnesses & non eyewitnesses) thought Jesus experienced.

    For example, Jesus by his own behaviours proved that he did not die at all when he did not appear even once to one of his alleged killers of the Jews in the same flesh and bones. Had he been dead and risen immortally (i.e. resurrected), Jesus SHOULD have appeared to at least one of his alleged killers of the Jews in his 40 days before ascention because he came to the sinners not to the righteous in Mark 2:17. Otherwise, Jews would have surely killed.
    Luke 23:44 Now it was about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. 45 Then the sun was darkened,[m] and the veil of the temple was torn in two. 46 And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit.’”[n] Having said this, He breathed His last.

    Mark 15:37 And Jesus cried out with a loud voice, and breathed His last.

    Matthew 27:50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.

    John 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

    John 21:14
    This is now the third time Jesus showed Himself to His disciples after He was raised from the dead.

    John 11:25
    Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.

    Roman 8:34 It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

    Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.

    Romans 6:4 just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    2 Corinthians 5:15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

    2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel,

    Revelation 1:18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

    Leave a comment:

widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
Working...
X