Commentary thread - Hakeem vs. Boxing Pythagoras - did Jesus die on the cross?

[Same Hakeem]

Bill the Cat writing " Exactly. That's why Jesus wasn't "shining" with the Disciples. He had not ascended and put on incorruptibility yet" is not true because "the dead will be raised imperishable" according to 1 Corinthians 15:52.

[Bill the Cat]

Bill the Cat writing " Exactly. That's why Jesus wasn't "shining" with the Disciples. He had not ascended and put on incorruptibility yet" is not true because "the dead will be raised imperishable" according to 1 Corinthians 15:52.

Jesus "shining" has nothing to do with being resurrected. Moses "shone", as did Jesus at the mount of transfiguration. It has to do with being in proximity to the shekinah glory of God.

[Same Hakeem]

Thanks Sparko. Now I understand your questions.

The answer to Sparko questions below lies in the fact the disciples thought he should be dead in the tomb for three days and three nights because they heard from other sources that he died on the cross and was laid in tomb. All their source of what happened to him is what they heard from others because Mark 14:50 says "they ALL have fled and foresook him" when Jesus was arrested.

The following questions are Sparko quedtions;

Scenario 1: Disciples on the road think Jesus died, but he didn't. They don't recognize him because?

Scenario 2: Disciples on the road think Jesus died, and he did but was resurrected. They don't recognize him because?

[Same Hakeem]

Bill the Cat writing " Jesus "shining" has nothing to do with being resurrected. Moses "shone", as did Jesus at the mount of transfiguration. It has to do with being in proximity to the shekinah glory of God" is wrong because the dead will be raised in glory according 1 Corinthians 15:43. The resurrected* in the heaven will be* shinning like Daniel says, Daniel 12:3, the righteous shall shine as the stars and Matthew 13:43 and they shall shine like the sun. This is confirmed by Revelation 1:16 " His (Jesus) face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance."

The above is in line with Christian commantries on 1 Corinthians 15:43 at biblehub.com

[Bill the Cat]

Bill the Cat writing " Jesus "shining" has nothing to do with being resurrected. Moses "shone", as did Jesus at the mount of transfiguration. It has to do with being in proximity to the shekinah glory of God" is wrong because the dead will be raised in glory according 1 Corinthians 15:43. The resurrected* in the heaven will be* shinning like Daniel says, Daniel 12:3, the righteous shall shine as the stars and Matthew 13:43 and they shall shine like the sun. This is confirmed by Revelation 1:16 " His (Jesus) face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance."

The above is in line with Christian commantries on 1 Corinthians 15:43 at biblehub.com

Uh, we will be near the shekina glory in heaven, sir. What I said was perfectly in line with scripture.

[Sparko]

Sparko asking " If they would have recognized him if he was resurrected after they thought he was dead, then why would they not recognize him if he didn't die? " is the most plausible answer is that Jesus was in disguise in public* in light of the following two fact that (1) his disciples were not able to know it was Jesus who was talking, walking, eating and spending night with them in Luke 24 and (2) Jesus never showed himself once to one of his alleged killers of the Jews and Romans when Jesus should have appeared to these sinners because Jesus said in Mark 2:17 "I come not to the righteous but to the sinner"

I donot understand your other two questions.

I am trying to find out why claiming they did not recognize Jesus seems to be something you are using to argue that he was not resurrected. I see no difference in whether he was resurrected or not in whether the disciples would or would not recognize him.

If he was in disguise, then why? Why would he lie about his appearance? Why would he disguise himself then run around for 40 days showing himself to everyone proving he is alive?

[Sparko]

Thanks Sparko. Now I understand your questions.

The answer to Sparko questions below lies in the fact the disciples thought he should be dead in the tomb for three days and three nights because they heard from other sources that he died on the cross and was laid in tomb. All their source of what happened to him is what they heard from others because Mark 14:50 says "they ALL have fled and foresook him" when Jesus was arrested.

The following questions are Sparko quedtions;

Scenario 1: Disciples on the road think Jesus died, but he didn't. They don't recognize him because?

Scenario 2: Disciples on the road think Jesus died, and he did but was resurrected. They don't recognize him because?

I am thinking there is a language problem here because your answers show you don't understand what we are saying.

If your friends thought you were dead and you were faking and showed up and said "surprise! I am not dead" would they not recognize you? Of course they would recognize you.

If your friends thought you were dead and you really WERE dead but you came back to life would the not recognize you? Of course they would.

Recognizing Jesus had nothing to do with whether he was resurrected or not.

[Sparko]

Also, Hakeem. If you click "Reply with Quote" at the bottom right side of the post you want to respond to, it will automatically include the words of that post in your reply so you don't have to keep writing "Bill the Cat writing " Jesus "shining" has nothing to do with being resurrected. Moses "shone", as did Jesus at the mount of transfiguration"

[Same Hakeem]

The answer to Sparko question " If he was in disguise, then why?" is that Jesus was in disguise because the Jews would kill him because hecdid not die at all. If Jesus was resurrected and hence immortalised (Luke 20:36), Jesus SHOULD have appeared at least once to any of his alleged killers of the Jews and the Romans because Jesus said in Mark 2:17 "I came not to the righteous but to the sinner"

The answer to Sparko question "Why would he disguise himself then run around for 40 days showing himself to everyone proving he is alive?" lies in the fact that Jesus appearences were limited to the women, his disciples and the 500 brethren. Not even one single appearence was to one of his alleged killers of the Jews and the Romans after he came out from the tomb during the 40 days.

[Same Hakeem]

Sparko writing " Recognizing Jesus had nothing to do with whether he was resurrected or not" is wrong because the resurrected will be glorified according to 1 Corinthians 15:43. So had Jesus been dead and resurrected in glory, Jesus should have been identifiable to the disciples on the way to Emmaus eating, walking and talking with Jesus and the disciples would have recognised easily.

[Same Hakeem]

Sparko writing "shining" has nothing to do with being resurrected" is wrong because 1 Corinthians 15:43 says "it is raised in glory" that is shining like the sun according to Matthew 13:43.

Yes Moses shone because he died then was raised shining. Hebrews 9:27 says "it is once to die"

[Same Hakeem]

Hi Sparko,

I would like to elaborate more on the "shining" issue;

Paul in describing the resurrected says "it is sown in dishonor and it is raised in glory" in 1 Corinthians 15:43. Paul goes on to describe the glory of the raised by saying "we will be like the man from heaven" as per 1 Corinthians 15:49 explained by Matthew 13:43 "the righteous will shine like the sun" and supported by Revelation 1:16 "His (Jesus) face was shining like the sun"

Given the above mentioned biblical verses, Jesus was not resurrected at all because had Jesus been dead and resurrected in glory, the desciples should have been able to recognise his glory easily but they did not on the way to Emmaus.

[Same Hakeem]

Thanks Sparko for the info

[Christianbookworm]

Sparko writing "shining" has nothing to do with being resurrected" is wrong because 1 Corinthians 15:43 says "it is raised in glory" that is shining like the sun according to Matthew 13:43.

Yes Moses shone because he died then was raised shining. Hebrews 9:27 says "it is once to die"

Uh no. Moses didn't get killed and brought back to life. The whole point of God only showing a fraction of His glory(His back) was to avoid killing Moses from a full exposure.

Oh, the two on the road to Emmaus were kept from recognizing Jesus. Let's just say that Jesus has the ability to keep people from recongizing Him if He wants. He doesn't even need a pair of glasses or a mask to pull of that trick either!

[Same Hakeem]

Christianbookworm writing " Moses didn't get killed and brought back to life" is not true because Moses was not killed. Moses died and was brought back to life because Hebrews 9:27 "it is once to die"