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Commentary thread - Hakeem vs. Boxing Pythagoras - did Jesus die on the cross?

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  • #31
    The History Channel actually did a decent documentary on crucifixion (I think it's this one: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1210802/)

    And as part of it, they explain why the Biblical accounts of the crucifixion are not only the most detailed account we have, but medically they are pretty much on target.
    "If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it"
    -Ravi Zacharias, The New Age: A foreign bird with a local walk

    Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
    1 Corinthians 16:13

    "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
    -Ben Witherington III

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    • #32
      He's back, and still can't process that Pilate being surprised that Jesus died so early would not necessarily mean that Jesus did not die as stated. He also brings back the "lingering death" comment. I'm almost thinking this guy is a Poe.

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      • #33
        Last part for Hakeem next. I'm guessing he will try to claim that the Gospels have been corrupted in a last ditch effort to try and save his argument.

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        • #34
          Hakeem even has the advantage of an extra post, but is hopelessly behind.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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          • #35
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            Hakeem even has the advantage of an extra post, but is hopelessly behind.
            Come on, you have a strong bias in this case. You religiously believe the Bible is true, and that Jesus died on the cross. You... well...

            Okay, I think he's hopelessly behind too.
            Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

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            • #36
              It even says in Mark that Pilate sent for the centurion to confirm that Jesus was dead. Is the centurion going to lie to the one who could have him punished for lying to him?

              And what about the Jews asking him for a guard on the tomb? Why didn't he say, "Don't be silly" if he didn't believe Jesus was dead?
              Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                He's back, and still can't process that Pilate being surprised that Jesus died so early would not necessarily mean that Jesus did not die as stated. He also brings back the "lingering death" comment. I'm almost thinking this guy is a Poe.
                Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post

                Source: John 10:17-18 HCSB


                17 This is why the Father loves Me, because I am laying down My life so I may take it up again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down on My own. I have the right to lay it down, and I have the right to take it up again. I have received this command from My Father.

                © Copyright Original Source

                What our Muslim friend does not understand, is the reason the Prophet Jesus died on the cross, was that not only was He the Christ/Messiah, but His death was by His own volition, having finished being separated from God for our sins. Little wonder Pilate was surprised by the fact He was dead earlier than he expected.
                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                  What our Muslim friend does not understand, is the reason the Prophet Jesus died on the cross, was that not only was He the Christ/Messiah, but His death was by His own volition, having finished being separated from God for our sins. Little wonder Pilate was surprised by the fact He was dead earlier than he expected.
                  Out of curiosity, since you believe that Jesus is God, how could it be that Jesus is separated from God? I could understand it better if you said that he was separated from the Father in some mysterious way... sort of... although they're supposedly both God.
                  Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                    Out of curiosity, since you believe that Jesus is God, how could it be that Jesus is separated from God? I could understand it better if you said that he was separated from the Father in some mysterious way... sort of... although they're supposedly both God.
                    I think that's what he meant to say actually. 37818 isn't usually very clear when he posts.

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                    • #40
                      For the part where he argues using Luke 13. It looks like a form of sarcasm given the context. Especially since Jesus would have known that Moses died outside of Jerusalem. Hakeem's argument shoots itself in the foot. Islam teaches that Jesus was a prophet, and that so was Moses. I don't think they regard Jesus to be that ignorant.

                      To me, Jesus' statement is something like "Hey, as long as I stay away from you, I'll be just fine!".

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                      • #41
                        Hakeem does raise a fresh point ... the failure to recognize Jesus on the road to Emmaus...but ignores that those two disciples ran to the the others and said that Jesus is indeed risen.
                        Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
                          Hakeem does raise a fresh point ... the failure to recognize Jesus on the road to Emmaus...but ignores that those two disciples ran to the the others and said that Jesus is indeed risen.
                          That point has nothing to do with whether or not Jesus had died previously though.

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                          • #43
                            Moderated By: One Bad Pig


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                            • #44
                              Forgive my haughtiness, but it seems Hakeem's arguments suffered a slow, lingering death.
                              "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                              --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                                That point has nothing to do with whether or not Jesus had died previously though.
                                I'll have to re-read...
                                Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

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