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Commentary thread - Hakeem vs. Boxing Pythagoras - did Jesus die on the cross?

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  • Christian3
    replied
    Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    The answer to "How in the world does the bolded portion above negate the possibility of sarcasm?" is that the text of Luke 13:33 does not even indicate sarcasm and also Jesus words in Luke 13:34-35;

    "34 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 35 Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.”
    What does verses 34 and 35 have to do with this discussion?

    Leave a comment:


  • Christian3
    replied
    Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Christian3 claiming that "Jesus was using sarcasm" in Luke 13:33 lacks textual evidence because Jesus referred to himself by using "I" then went on saying "for a prophet cannot die outside Jerusalem"


    Thanks for your inputs though.
    Other prophets died outside of Jerusalem and you know that.

    Islam considers John the Baptist a prophet and he died outside of Jerusalem.

    Islam considers Muhammad a prophet and he died outside of Jerusalem.

    Hakeem, it is way past time for you to tell us what happened to Jesus if He did not die. WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER???
    Last edited by Christian3; 02-16-2018, 06:17 PM.

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  • Same Hakeem
    replied
    The answer to "How in the world does the bolded portion above negate the possibility of sarcasm?" is that the text of Luke 13:33 does not even indicate sarcasm and also Jesus words in Luke 13:34-35;

    "34 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 35 Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.”

    Leave a comment:


  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Christian3 claiming that "Jesus was using sarcasm" in Luke 13:33 lacks textual evidence because Jesus referred to himself by using "I" then went on saying "for a prophet cannot die outside Jerusalem"


    Thanks for your inputs though.
    How in the world does the bolded portion above negate the possibility of sarcasm?

    Leave a comment:


  • Same Hakeem
    replied
    Christian3 claiming that "Jesus was using sarcasm" in Luke 13:33 lacks textual evidence because Jesus referred to himself by using "I" then went on saying "for a prophet cannot die outside Jerusalem"


    Thanks for your inputs though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Christian3
    replied
    Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    In Luke 13:33, Jesus said this in self-reference because Jesus started Luke 13:33 saying "I must walk on today, tomorrow and day after...." then he went to say in the same verse of Luke 13:33 ".... for a prophet CANNOT die outside of Jerusalem" This means Jesus was saying as a prophet I cannot die outside Jerusalem.
    Already addressed. Jesus was using sarcasm.

    Leave a comment:


  • Same Hakeem
    replied
    In Luke 13:33, Jesus said this in self-reference because Jesus started Luke 13:33 saying "I must walk on today, tomorrow and day after...." then he went to say in the same verse of Luke 13:33 ".... for a prophet CANNOT die outside of Jerusalem" This means Jesus was saying as a prophet I cannot die outside Jerusalem.

    Leave a comment:


  • Christian3
    replied
    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
    Yes, but they also believe Jesus did not die on the cross. But rather died of old age.
    True, according to the Ahmadis Jesus lived to be 120 years old, died and was buried in Kashmir.

    That is the reason I keep asking the resident Muslim what he thinks happened to Jesus and so far he has not answered.

    Leave a comment:


  • 37818
    replied
    Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
    <snip>

    The only other Muslims who believe Jesus was crucified are the Ahmadis. Our Muslim here said he is not an Ahmadis.
    Yes, but they also believe Jesus did not die on the cross. But rather died of old age.

    Leave a comment:


  • Christian3
    replied
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    I think it's got an element of sarcasm to it.
    Thanks.

    The NEB commentary said Jesus was using irony.

    I would say about 98% of the Muslims I've spoken to about this believe this interpretation:

    Hilali/Khan
    And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not (i.e. Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) ):

    Others think Judas or someone else was crucified instead of Jesus.

    A lot of Muslims believe it was Allah who put a resemblance of Jesus on another man. Who else???

    The only other Muslims who believe Jesus was crucified are the Ahmadis. Our Muslim here said he is not an Ahmadis.
    Last edited by Christian3; 02-13-2018, 12:46 PM.

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  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
    What is your interpretation of Luke 13:33?
    I think it's got an element of sarcasm to it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Christian3
    replied
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    It is now, but it was outside the walls until c. AD 44.
    What is your interpretation of Luke 13:33?

    Leave a comment:


  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
    I talked to a Jewish friend of mine who lives in Israel and he said the place Jesus died is considered a part of Jerusalem.
    It is now, but it was outside the walls until c. AD 44.

    Leave a comment:


  • Christian3
    replied
    Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Rogue06 saying "Christ Himself directly references His death" is true subject to the condition that Jesus made in Luke 13:33 that "I must walk today, tomorrow and the day after for a prophet CANNOT die outside Jerusalem"
    Many prophets died outside of Jerusalem. Moses did, for one.

    AND, so did your prophet Muhammad!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Christian3
    replied
    Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Rogue06 saying "Christ Himself directly references His death" is true subject to the condition that Jesus made in Luke 13:33 that "I must walk today, tomorrow and the day after for a prophet CANNOT die outside Jerusalem"
    I talked to a Jewish friend of mine who lives in Israel and he said the place Jesus died is considered a part of Jerusalem.

    I think what Jesus was saying is that it is the Sanhendren who only had the authority to condemn someone to death and they are located in Jerusalem.

    So what happened to Jesus in your opinion?

    Leave a comment:

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