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Commentary thread - Hakeem vs. Boxing Pythagoras - did Jesus die on the cross?

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  • Cerebrum123 claiming "The only thing necessary for Jesus to have been truly resurrected was immortality" is true but there is no real proof from the accounts of the New Testament that Jesus was REALLY immortal since no one saw Jesus rising from the dead. To the contrary, Jesus never appeared once to one of his alleged killers of the Jews whereas Jesus himself promise to show them the miracle of Jonah (Matthew 16:4; New Living Translation), which is surviving death, according to the Book of Jonah.
    Last edited by Same Hakeem; 06-08-2018, 08:15 PM.

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    • 1) Christian3 saying “the disciples did recognize Jesus on the road to Emmaus when He wanted them to” amounts to prove that Jesus was not resurrected and did not really die because when resurrected, 1 Corinthians 15:49 “we shall bear the image of the heavenly". And the resurrected will be glorified and be shining like the sun according to Matthew 13:43;

      “Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father”

      However, Jesus was not heavenly resurrected and was not shining like sun after he came from the tomb. Had Jesus been resurrected and glorified, the disciples that walked, talked, ate and spent over night with Jesus on his way to Emmaus would have recognized him easily; however, they did not recognize him till Jesus wanted so.

      2) Christian3 saying “Jesus appearing to His killers would not have worked because they still would not have believed” is not relevant because Jesus promised the Jews to perform FOR THEM the miracle of Jonah in Matthew 16:4 (New Living Translation);
      “Only an evil, adulterous generation would demand a miraculous sign, but the only sign I will give them is the sign of the prophet Jonah." Then Jesus left them and went away”

      3) Hebrews 9:27 saying "people are destined to die once" means people will die once.
      Last edited by Same Hakeem; 06-08-2018, 08:29 PM.

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      • The real test to validate if Jesus really died or did not die at all is if "Christ will be THE FIRST to rise from the dead" according to Acts 26:23. However, Jesus was not the first to rise from the dead according to the Bible. For instance, "the dead bodies of the saints who died and rose from the dead" according to Matthew 27:52. Therefore, Jesus cannot be risen from the dead according to Acts 26:23 and hence did not die at all.

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        • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
          Cerebrum123 claiming "The only thing necessary for Jesus to have been truly resurrected was immortality" is true but there is no real proof from the accounts of the New Testament that Jesus was REALLY immortal since no one saw Jesus rising from the dead. To the contrary, Jesus never appeared once to one of his alleged killers of the Jews whereas Jesus himself promise to show them the miracle of Jonah (Matthew 16:4; New Living Translation), which is surviving death, according to the Book of Jonah.


          Matthew 12:38 Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”

          39 He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

          The time factor, and the fact that Jesus came out are the points of comparison. The same as when Jesus compared himself to the serpent lifted up on a pole by Moses. The people of Nineveh didn't Jonah spit out by the "great fish", but he "was a sign to them".

          Luke 11:29 As the crowds increased, Jesus said, “This is a wicked generation. It asks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah. 30 For as Jonah was a sign to the Ninevites, so also will the Son of Man be to this generation.

          There is nothing in the book of Jonah that explicitly has him go and tell them about his experience in the "great fish" either. Are you going to say Jonah wasn't miraculously saved by Allah?

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          • Cerebrum123 "The time factor, and the fact that Jesus came out are the points of comparison" is true because Jonah miracle was not for sure resurrection as Jonah was miraclously saved alive inside the fish for three days and three nights.

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