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Commentary thread - Hakeem vs. Boxing Pythagoras - did Jesus die on the cross?

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  • Thanks Christian3.

    Saying "When you stop breathing for the length of time Jesus stopped breathing you are dead" is not true because Jesus was only on the cross for less half a day whereas the victim of crucifixion lives at least 12 hours to several days according to even Christian sources at https://www.studylight.org/commentary/mark/15-44.html

    In the Greek of the Gospels, there was no mention of the term "he breathed his last". However, the term "he gave up his spirit" is the employed term for example in John 19:30. But of course no could see a spirit so it must be concluded based on the notion that since he stopped breathing then he gave up spirit, which is not correct because of the fact the crucifixion does not render a victim till days according to even the crucifixion sources.

    Comment


    • Cerebrum123 saying "Take a few deep breaths. Your brain appears to be deprived of oxygen. If you've really gone that long without breathing and without dying, then go to Guinness. They are always looking for new world records" is not supported biblically and historically in terms to the roman crucifixion methodology. According to roman crucifixion, death on the cross was slow lingering process that it was common to take average of three days. However, Jesus was on the cross only for less than half a day (i.e. 9 hours) and hence Pilate was surprised to hear that he was already dead. Please visit Christian commentaries in this regard at http://biblehub.com/commentaries/mark/15-44.htm
      Last edited by Same Hakeem; 02-11-2018, 12:28 PM.

      Comment


      • Rogue06 saying "Christ Himself directly references His death" is true subject to the condition that Jesus made in Luke 13:33 that "I must walk today, tomorrow and the day after for a prophet CANNOT die outside Jerusalem"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
          Cerebrum123 saying "Take a few deep breaths. Your brain appears to be deprived of oxygen. If you've really gone that long without breathing and without dying, then go to Guinness. They are always looking for new world records" is not supported biblically and historically in terms to the roman crucifixion methodology. According to roman crucifixion, death on the cross was slow lingering process that it was common to take average of three days. However, Jesus was on the cross only for less than half a day (i.e. 9 hours) and hence Pilate was surprised to hear that he was already dead. Please visit Christian commentaries in this regard at http://biblehub.com/commentaries/mark/15-44.htm
          You forgot to take those breaths like I advised didn't you?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
            Rogue06 saying "Christ Himself directly references His death" is true subject to the condition that Jesus made in Luke 13:33 that "I must walk today, tomorrow and the day after for a prophet CANNOT die outside Jerusalem"
            You're putting far more weight on this than it will bear. You're assuming that no prophet, ever, could die outside Jerusalem. That is an exceedingly unlikely proposition. For example, Jesus called John the Baptist the greatest of the prophets (Mat. 11:7-11). John the Baptist, however, did not die in Jerusalem, but near the Dead Sea.
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
            sigpic
            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
              Rogue06 saying "Christ Himself directly references His death" is true subject to the condition that Jesus made in Luke 13:33 that "I must walk today, tomorrow and the day after for a prophet CANNOT die outside Jerusalem"
              I talked to a Jewish friend of mine who lives in Israel and he said the place Jesus died is considered a part of Jerusalem.

              I think what Jesus was saying is that it is the Sanhendren who only had the authority to condemn someone to death and they are located in Jerusalem.

              So what happened to Jesus in your opinion?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                Rogue06 saying "Christ Himself directly references His death" is true subject to the condition that Jesus made in Luke 13:33 that "I must walk today, tomorrow and the day after for a prophet CANNOT die outside Jerusalem"
                Many prophets died outside of Jerusalem. Moses did, for one.

                AND, so did your prophet Muhammad!!!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                  I talked to a Jewish friend of mine who lives in Israel and he said the place Jesus died is considered a part of Jerusalem.
                  It is now, but it was outside the walls until c. AD 44.
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                  • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                    It is now, but it was outside the walls until c. AD 44.
                    What is your interpretation of Luke 13:33?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                      What is your interpretation of Luke 13:33?
                      I think it's got an element of sarcasm to it.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        I think it's got an element of sarcasm to it.
                        Thanks.

                        The NEB commentary said Jesus was using irony.

                        I would say about 98% of the Muslims I've spoken to about this believe this interpretation:

                        Hilali/Khan
                        And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not (i.e. Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) ):

                        Others think Judas or someone else was crucified instead of Jesus.

                        A lot of Muslims believe it was Allah who put a resemblance of Jesus on another man. Who else???

                        The only other Muslims who believe Jesus was crucified are the Ahmadis. Our Muslim here said he is not an Ahmadis.
                        Last edited by Christian3; 02-13-2018, 11:46 AM.

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                        • Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                          <snip>

                          The only other Muslims who believe Jesus was crucified are the Ahmadis. Our Muslim here said he is not an Ahmadis.
                          Yes, but they also believe Jesus did not die on the cross. But rather died of old age.
                          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                            Yes, but they also believe Jesus did not die on the cross. But rather died of old age.
                            True, according to the Ahmadis Jesus lived to be 120 years old, died and was buried in Kashmir.

                            That is the reason I keep asking the resident Muslim what he thinks happened to Jesus and so far he has not answered.

                            Comment


                            • In Luke 13:33, Jesus said this in self-reference because Jesus started Luke 13:33 saying "I must walk on today, tomorrow and day after...." then he went to say in the same verse of Luke 13:33 ".... for a prophet CANNOT die outside of Jerusalem" This means Jesus was saying as a prophet I cannot die outside Jerusalem.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                                In Luke 13:33, Jesus said this in self-reference because Jesus started Luke 13:33 saying "I must walk on today, tomorrow and day after...." then he went to say in the same verse of Luke 13:33 ".... for a prophet CANNOT die outside of Jerusalem" This means Jesus was saying as a prophet I cannot die outside Jerusalem.
                                Already addressed. Jesus was using sarcasm.

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