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Commentary thread - Hakeem vs. Boxing Pythagoras - did Jesus die on the cross?

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  • #1

    Commentary thread - Hakeem vs. Boxing Pythagoras - did Jesus die on the cross?

    Comment away!
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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  • #2

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    • #3
      :CornOfPoppiness:
      "If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it"
      -Ravi Zacharias, The New Age: A foreign bird with a local walk

      Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
      1 Corinthians 16:13

      "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
      -Ben Witherington III

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      • #4
        So he got whipped and flayed, crucified for nine hours, and stabbed in the side. That's all? No wonder he got right back up after a few days rest.
        Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

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        • #5
          Is he saying Jesus DID die, just not on the cross but by the spear?
          Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

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          • #6
            Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
            Is he saying Jesus DID die, just not on the cross but by the spear?
            Originally posted by Hakeem View Post
            Therefore and at the request of the Pilate in Mark 15:44, the Centurion, in addition to the above cumulative above facts, pierced Jesus side with a spear and blood and water flowed from his side in John 19:34 proving that Jesus did not die when keeping in mind that he was on the cross for short period of 9 hours with his legs not broken, while the two crossmates legs were alive until their legs were broken to hasten their death ,and drink given to him to relieve him from pain and make him lose consciousness as explained above.

            Therefore, when he found out from the Centurion, Pilate gave the body according to Mark 15:45.


            With the cumulative facts stated above, I submit to you that Jesus did not die at in the process.

            I think he's trying to argue that Jesus only lost consciousness and that the fact that blood and water flowed from His side when He was pierced by the spear somehow proves that he wasn't dead. How he comes to that conclusion is beyond me though . He seems to be using arguments similar to the ones found in this article:

            http://www.themuslimtimes.org/2012/0...e-on-the-cross (Haven't checked the site thoroughly for questionable content, so visit at your own risk).

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            • #7
              That's just it...he isn't very clear here just what he means...did Jesus die, just not of crucifixion, but rather by the spear? I do assume he, being Muslim, intended to mean Jesus didn't die at all. But he's not clear on that, so IDK.
              Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

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              • #8
                He is saying he didn't die at all.
                "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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                • #9
                  Is he serious? That was the most strung together bunch of half-proofs I've seen in a while...
                  That's what
                  - She

                  Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                  - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                  I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                  - Stephen R. Donaldson

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                  • #10
                    Blood and serum flowing separately IS a sign that death has occurred. Even the Romans knew that.


                    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                      Blood and serum flowing separately IS a sign that death has occurred. Even the Romans knew that.
                      Right. The blood starts to separate shortly after the heart stops beating. A large flow of blood would be more likely with a perforation of the distended and thin-walled right atrium or ventricle than the thick-walled and contracted left ventricle.
                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      - Stephen R. Donaldson

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                      • #12

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                          Right. The blood starts to separate shortly after the heart stops beating. A large flow of blood would be more likely with a perforation of the distended and thin-walled right atrium or ventricle than the thick-walled and contracted left ventricle.
                          The executioners had crucified thousands of people by the time of Jesus' death. They certainly weren't too stupid to not recognize a dead person when they saw one, and that is without the medical knowledge we boast of now.


                          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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                          • #14
                            The swoon theory? Is that the theory that gives Jesus a healing factor ala Wolverine?
                            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                            • #15
                              My favorite is Kirsopp Lake's "you've got the wrong grave."
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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