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Commentary Thread: Is the Bible Inspired by God

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  • Commentary Thread: Is the Bible Inspired by God

    This thread is for commentary on the debate between Hakeem and 37818. Participants are not allowed to comment here until the debate is over. Debate can be found here:

    http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...Hakeem-v-37818
    Last edited by Littlejoe; 07-31-2017, 03:02 PM.
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    Stephen R. Donaldson

  • #2
    Hakeem trots out the tired canards of "contradictions"...like we have never seen these before. I suspect from the two openings, that 37818 will have no issues dismantling Hakeems weak opening. We shall see...
    Last edited by Littlejoe; 07-31-2017, 09:07 PM.
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't think Hakeem understands how to do a formal debate.
      That's what
      - She

      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
      Stephen R. Donaldson

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
        I don't think Hakeem understands how to do a formal debate.
        He also doesn't seem to realize that the Koran affirms the inspiration, preservation, and authority of the Biblical texts. Short video explains all of this, but I'm also posting a few of the verses in the Koran that affirm that God's words don't change, that the Torah and Gospel are God's words, and that they were authoritative even for Muslims.



        3.3 He has revealed this Book to you, setting forth the truth and confirming the earlier Books, and earlier He revealed the Torah and Gospel
        3.4 for the guidance of mankind; and He has also revealed the Criterion (to distinguish truth from falsehood). A severe chastisement lies in store for those who deny the signs of Allah. Allah is All-Mighty; He is the Lord of Retribution.

        18.27 (O Prophet), recite to them from the Book of your Lord what has been revealed to you for none may change His words; (and were you to make any change in His words) you will find no refuge from Him.

        7.157 [To-day this mercy is for] those who follow the ummi Prophet, whom they find mentioned in the Torah and the Gospel with them. He enjoins upon them what is good and forbids them what is evil. He makes the clean things lawful to them and prohibits all corrupt things, and removes from them their burdens and the shackles that were upon them. So those who believe in him and assist him, and succour him and follow the Light which has been sent down with him, it is they who shall prosper.

        5.68 Say to them: 'People of the Book! You have no solid ground to stand on unless you establish the Torah and the Gospel and all that had been revealed to you from your Lord. Indeed the message revealed to you from your Lord will aggravate insurgence and unbelief in many of them. So do not grieve for those who disbelieve.

        10.94 Now, if you are in doubt concerning what We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Book before you. It is the truth that has come to you from your Lord, so do never become one of those who doubt,

        So, Christians are supposed to judge by the Gospel, but the Gospel is inherently opposed to the Koran. It's impossible for a Christian to obey the Koran, because if they judge by the Gospel, then they reject the Koran, but if they reject the Koran, then they aren't obeying it. If we reject the Gospel, to follow the Koran, we are thereby disobeying the Koran.

        Comment


        • #5
          Wow... That was... underwhelming...
          That's what
          - She

          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
          Stephen R. Donaldson

          Comment


          • #6
            uh. I thought the Muslims accepted the Old Testament as scripture? If so, didn't Hakeem just call his own religion liars for doing so?

            Comment


            • #7
              It seems Hakeem does not understand the difference between what God originally inspired from the errors of man handling the texts. The Arabic Quran has suffered worst than the Hebrew and Greek texts of the Bible. Believers have better access of tools to study the Hebrew and Greek texts of the Bible than those who believe Quran do to understand its Arabic text.

              There is the promise that God will make liars out of those who would add to His written word (Proverbs 30:6). And is in evidence for all to see. The Bible contradictions!

              I will begin posting here, addressing Hakeem's last set arguments. For starters, he has failed to show any of the contradictions are do to textual issues existing in the original autographs of said texts. Which means the errors are of man coping the texts not in the text as was give by God. So the God breathed text has not been refuted.

              And this is besides his misinterpretations.
              . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                uh. I thought the Muslims accepted the Old Testament as scripture? If so, didn't Hakeem just call his own religion liars for doing so?
                The Koran commands them to accept it as the inspired words of Allah, but generally Muslims today think it's been "corrupted".

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                  The Koran commands them to accept it as the inspired words of Allah, but generally Muslims today think it's been "corrupted".
                  well then, that pretty much defeats Hakeem's argument right there.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    well then, that pretty much defeats Hakeem's argument right there.
                    Yup, which is why I posted the video earlier. It's a short summary of why the Koran is self defeating.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hakeem View Post
                      However, the fact is that contradictions, flaws and errors exist in the Bible.
                      None of those contradictions, flaws or errors as they now exist can be shown to be from the original autographs of said God-breathed documents.

                      Your example:
                      Originally posted by Hakeem View Post
                      1. How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

                      (a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)
                      (b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)
                      It is obvious that one of the readings in the Hebrew text is wrong.

                      Without giving you any further explanation, the original reading has been deduced to be the one as found in 2 Kings 8:26. The reading forty-two in Hebrew of 2 Chronicles 22:2 is the reading which was the corrupted text. In 2 Chronicles 22:2 the NIV and NASB give the reading, "twenty-two."
                      . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                        None of those contradictions, flaws or errors as they now exist can be shown to be from the original autographs of said God-breathed documents.


                        My response is that contradictions/errors must not exist in an inspired book of God according to 1 Corinthians 14:33 and Proverbs 30:5. How these contradictions came about is not my debate with you.

                        Your example:


                        It is obvious that one of the readings in the Hebrew text is wrong.

                        Without giving you any further explanation, the original reading has been deduced to be the one as found in 2 Kings 8:26. The reading forty-two in Hebrew of 2 Chronicles 22:2 is the reading which was the corrupted text. In 2 Chronicles 22:2 the NIV and NASB give the reading, "twenty-two."
                        Thank you for admitting that there is wrong reading and hence cannot be inspired by God.

                        As I said, we are not debating the reasons behind these contradictions originated.

                        In addition, we do not have the orginal manuscripts. What we have are copies of copies of copies of these manuscripts and no two copies are same.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                          None of those contradictions, flaws or errors as they now exist can be shown to be from the original autographs of said God-breathed documents.

                          Your example:


                          It is obvious that one of the readings in the Hebrew text is wrong.

                          Without giving you any further explanation, the original reading has been deduced to be the one as found in 2 Kings 8:26. The reading forty-two in Hebrew of 2 Chronicles 22:2 is the reading which was the corrupted text. In 2 Chronicles 22:2 the NIV and NASB give the reading, "twenty-two."
                          Interesting: even the "Answers in Genesis" site doesn't make any assertions about this one. https://answersingenesis.org/bible-t...-ages-at-once/
                          sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                            Interesting: even the "Answers in Genesis" site doesn't make any assertions about this one. https://answersingenesis.org/bible-t...-ages-at-once/
                            It is worth noticing that solutions have been developed to address this contradiction between 2 Kings 8:26 and 2 Chronicles 22:2. To this effect, Adam Clark Commentary says on 2 Kings 8:26 "After all, here is a most manifest contradiction, that cannot be removed but by having recourse to violent modes of solution."

                            Source: https://www.studylight.org/commentar...2-kings-8.html

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hakeem View Post
                              Thank you for admitting that there is wrong reading and hence cannot be inspired by God.
                              So are you saying because the copies contain the error that its original was not the God-breathed text?
                              As I said, we are not debating the reasons behind these contradictions originated.
                              Where? The debate was over the Bible being inspired by God.
                              In addition, we do not have the original manuscripts. What we have are copies of copies of copies of these manuscripts and no two copies are same.
                              Not anyone claimed any individual copy to be inspired by God. Nor that any translation is for that matter. God has preserved the whole of His word. To deny what God has preserved in the written copies is to deny God and His word.
                              . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                              Comment

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