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Commentary Thread: Christianity Today in the USA

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  • Commentary Thread: Christianity Today in the USA

    Originally posted by Mickiel View Post
    Also Christians " Getting off" on telling people they are going to hell can be a power trip; as if they hold the power of pronouncing such a thing. Getting some kind of weird thrill out of it. I can't count the number of Christians here who keep telling me they hope I change " Before its too late." Like their threatening you or intimidating you with this " Doomsday witnessing."
    Like this jerk?
    But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bear fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham. Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire." (Matt 3:7-12)

    And this guy:
    Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (Matt 7:21-23

  • #2
    Originally posted by RBerman View Post
    Like this jerk?
    But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bear fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham. Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire." (Matt 3:7-12)

    And this guy:
    Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (Matt 7:21-23


    I think its insulting to call people jerks; but that name calling obviously is a part of your witness.

    Comment


    • #3
      Commentary Thread: Christianity Today in the USA

      Since the thread Christianity Today in the USA is a private debate between Jed and Mickiel please make your comments here. Thanks.

      I moved two from that thread to here.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #4
        I know why Christians would have a hell, to put the garbbage of humanity there; and rid themselves of us awful non hell believers. But why would God create a hell? Why?? Why keep alive something that you do not like forever? God could simply will people out of existence and be done with them. Why keep them alive and in misery for all of eternity; WHY would God do something like that, with all the sense God must have, all the intelligence he must hold, why would he do something so stupid? I don't understand that.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mickiel View Post
          I think its insulting to call people jerks; but that name calling obviously is a part of your witness.
          He's not insulting anyone. He's creating a reductio ad absurdum based on your comments. RBerman is saying that you'd think Jesus would get off on telling people they are going to hell, because he's on a power trip; as if he holds the power to pronounce such a thing. Or in fewer words, he's saying you would call Jesus a jerk (for all intents and purposes).

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by OingoBoingo View Post
            He's not insulting anyone. He's creating a reductio ad absurdum based on your comments. RBerman is saying that you'd think Jesus would get off on telling people they are going to hell, because he's on a power trip; as if he holds the power to pronounce such a thing. Or in fewer words, he's saying you would call Jesus a jerk (for all intents and purposes).
            So that's what he is doing? Well in my view, and in scripture Jesus never tells anyone to go to hell, he never sends anyone there, and only one scripture says that the eternal fire was created for the devil and his demons, not humans. Jesus NEVER, not ONCE, pronounced anyone to the Christian hell.

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            • #7
              Jesus never talked about hell in the bible, not this Christian hell. Jesus refered to Gehanna and Hades, but he NEVER talked about the Christian hell. Not one time.

              Comment


              • #8
                What about Revelation, where Jesus revealed that some would be cast into the lake of fire?
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  What about Revelation, where Jesus revealed that some would be cast into the lake of fire?
                  There are scriptures in the bible that say we all will go through a fire, which highly indicates a baptism of fire. See when your religion has trained punishment into your belief, its what you see in scripture. The lake of fire may be purification not punishment. We don't know everything about this lake, but there are many lakes of fire in Gods Kingdom. And everywhere we see God and his throne, fire is always there. Fire in the kingdom I think is a normal great bueatiful benefical thing. But we have been trained to see it as a weapon or a punishing tool; I think God and Christ and many Angels are a type of " Fire Beings", and its plenty of scripture to back that up.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mickiel View Post
                    There are scriptures in the bible that say we all will go through a fire, which highly indicates a baptism of fire. See when your religion has trained punishment into your belief, its what you see in scripture. The lake of fire may be purification not punishment. We don't know everything about this lake, but there are many lakes of fire in Gods Kingdom. And everywhere we see God and his throne, fire is always there. Fire in the kingdom I think is a normal great bueatiful benefical thing. But we have been trained to see it as a weapon or a punishing tool; I think God and Christ and many Angels are a type of " Fire Beings", and its plenty of scripture to back that up.
                    Yeah, which is why it's referred to as "eternal punishment", and torment that will leave the people without "rest day or night forever".

                    Jude 1:7
                    In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

                    Revelation 14:11
                    And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

                    Yeah, "purification" really fits those descriptions.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mickiel View Post
                      I think its insulting to call people jerks; but that name calling obviously is a part of your witness.
                      He's referring to how you think people who use insults are jerks. He wasn't seriously calling Jesus a jerk, but your beliefs certainly are doing that.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mickiel View Post
                        There are scriptures in the bible that say we all will go through a fire, which highly indicates a baptism of fire. See when your religion has trained punishment into your belief, its what you see in scripture. The lake of fire may be purification not punishment. We don't know everything about this lake, but there are many lakes of fire in Gods Kingdom. And everywhere we see God and his throne, fire is always there. Fire in the kingdom I think is a normal great bueatiful benefical thing. But we have been trained to see it as a weapon or a punishing tool; I think God and Christ and many Angels are a type of " Fire Beings", and its plenty of scripture to back that up.
                        In 1Corinth. 3:15, " If any mans work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss, BUT he himself shall be " Saved by Fire." The fire here is purification. It is NOT desrtruction, it is not damnation, but it is fire. God obviously uses fire in the salvation of men. Malachi 3:3 The Lord is described as a Refiner and purifier of men. There is a fire in heaven that purifies; simply no doubt about it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mickiel View Post
                          In 1Corinth. 3:15, " If any mans work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss, BUT he himself shall be " Saved by Fire." The fire here is purification. It is NOT desrtruction, it is not damnation, but it is fire. God obviously uses fire in the salvation of men. Malachi 3:3 The Lord is described as a Refiner and purifier of men. There is a fire in heaven that purifies; simply no doubt about it.
                          Wrong verse Mickiel, we will gladly admit that there is a different context and understanding in this verse. The other verses mentioned have a different context, and mean something entirely different to what you are trying to say here.

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                          • #14
                            Since Mickiel has labelled me as the "most disrespectful person on TWeb", he won't interact with my points. Can someone else try bringing them to his attention?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Purification by fire is a solid biblical principle, and all of us will be burned with this fire, Mark 9:49-50, " EVERYONE will be salted with fire. And these verses support this;

                              Is.4:4, 48:10
                              1Pet. 5:10, 1:7
                              Job 23:10
                              Matt. 3:10-11
                              Ps. 66:10-12
                              Eph. 5:26
                              Prov. 17:3.

                              And I will not debate with Christians who insult me; period!

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