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Your Views on Patriarchy

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  • Your Views on Patriarchy

    May I ask you a question? How does Complementarian/Patriarchy make you personally feel?

    Here's where I'm at. If Complementarianism/Patriarchy is true... then either God purposely MADE me, as a female, deficient to lead, deficient to safely and adequately think for myself, protect myself, too deficient to make a "final decision", etc. OR God made me potentially adequate but then tells me that I can't use my potential. Because of an arbitrary creation order. Think about it, please. It's one or the other...at least that's how I see it. Tell me what you think...how do YOU deal?

    I do not believe God would do this, I don't believe this is God's character.
    Aragorn: What do you fear, my lady?

    Eowyn: A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire.

    Aragorn: You are a daughter of kings, a shield maiden of Rohan. I do not think that will be your fate.

  • #2
    Edited by a Moderator
    Last edited by Catholicity; 09-06-2017, 10:45 PM.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by TheWall View Post
      Could you elaborate what you mean by Patriarchy and Conplementarianism?
      Short answer: Male rule. Surely a quick search on the Internet can bring you up to speed.
      Aragorn: What do you fear, my lady?

      Eowyn: A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire.

      Aragorn: You are a daughter of kings, a shield maiden of Rohan. I do not think that will be your fate.

      Comment


      • #4
        Edited by a Moderator


        Moderator Notice

        please make sure which forum you are in TW. men are not allowed in the Sorority

        ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
        Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Psychotherapy Room unless told otherwise.

        Last edited by RumTumTugger; 09-06-2017, 03:29 PM.
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        • #5
          Um, WF, did you intend for only females to answer? If so, TW, you are in the wrong forum - scoot. If not, the mods can move the thread for you, WF.

          Okay, in answer to your question, I don't take that particular view of Complementarianism - different is not necessarily inferior. I'm not convenience that complementarianism as it's put forward is correct. Yes, men and women are different and have different roles to play because of those differences - that part of complementary I have no issue with - but the subordinate is not supported by 'there is no male nor female' and other passages - that I think is over reach.

          As for how it makes me feel, it's irritating, yes - but how I feel about it is not the important part - whether or not its true is. If it's God's will that we as women be subordinate then that's what we should be - and we should be ready to accept that IF it is true. I don't think it is - I think Scripture gives us a more egalitarian way while also using our differences to God's glory.

          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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          • #6
            Thank you for your reply. Yes, I'd like to keep this a sisters-only thread in here. Thanks so much.
            Aragorn: What do you fear, my lady?

            Eowyn: A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire.

            Aragorn: You are a daughter of kings, a shield maiden of Rohan. I do not think that will be your fate.

            Comment


            • #7
              Sure thing.

              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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              • #8
                Then we will keep it in here


                TW please scoot now let us women gab together ok?

                and Teal thanks

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                • #9
                  No prob.

                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The "Benevolent" Patriarchy (Soft Complementarianism) is seriously irritating. The "Don't worry, I will take care of you. I'll take the responsibility for you, I'll shoulder this burden for you." Should I therefore see myself as incompetent to care for myself? Am I not capable of being responsible for myself? Why do I need a "spiritual" leader in my home? Is Christ not enough for me that I should need a supplement, revealing just how very deficient that I am? Am I a perpetual infant in constant need of male care like this? Did God purpose this deficiency in me so that a man could come and rescue me? What is this?! Or, if its just fake...if I don't really *need* a male to be my spiritual head, etc...then why damage a woman's identity over it? Why keep her from becoming strong enough and competent enough to make decisions for herself and share in these decisions with her family? Seriously.

                    If you believe in any variation of patriarchy, how do you handle this view of you as a woman? Either actually incompetent to lead and *need* a man to guide you, OR you actually are potentially competent but you aren't allowed to develop the God-given potential God created in you.

                    I'm asking you how this makes you feel. Scripture wrangling can and has been done elsewhere. I'm not asking you for your interpretation of the verses thrown about over this topic. I"m asking you, as a woman, how you personally handle this view of God and yourself.
                    Last edited by Wildflower; 09-07-2017, 08:25 AM.
                    Aragorn: What do you fear, my lady?

                    Eowyn: A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire.

                    Aragorn: You are a daughter of kings, a shield maiden of Rohan. I do not think that will be your fate.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Not to mention, what if I want to stay single(and celibate)? I've heard that Paul was turning household codes on their heads by making the Pater Familias(the male head of the household in Ancient Rome, very sexist) hae something to do also. Household codes were generally directed at only women, children, and slaves. The man could do whatever he wanted under Roman house codes. Paul wrote that the husband/father/master had responsibilities also. And you can't microwave human cultural advancement. It would take centuries for the ideal of no male or female would come to fruition(if it fully has yet in parts of the world).
                      If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                        Not to mention, what if I want to stay single(and celibate)? I've heard that Paul was turning household codes on their heads by making the Pater Familias(the male head of the household in Ancient Rome, very sexist) hae something to do also. Household codes were generally directed at only women, children, and slaves. The man could do whatever he wanted under Roman house codes. Paul wrote that the husband/father/master had responsibilities also. And you can't microwave human cultural advancement. It would take centuries for the ideal of no male or female would come to fruition(if it fully has yet in parts of the world).
                        Agreed.

                        For the celibate or single mom, there is always the argument that she needs to be "under authority" of a male somewhere. Like a father or just grab a guy at church and make him your "covering" because sister, you NEED a covering.

                        *not saying single motherhood is ideal, just saying it exists.
                        Last edited by Wildflower; 09-07-2017, 09:00 AM.
                        Aragorn: What do you fear, my lady?

                        Eowyn: A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire.

                        Aragorn: You are a daughter of kings, a shield maiden of Rohan. I do not think that will be your fate.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Wildflower View Post
                          Agreed.

                          For the celibate or single mom, there is always the argument that she needs to be "under authority" of a male somewhere. Like a father or just grab a guy at church and make him your "covering" because sister, you NEED a covering.
                          Really? I haven't heard that. I've heard more that the guy should have final say in a marriage because guys really want to have power and respect. For some reason. Of course, making an exception for single women makes one wonder if we really need to act as if getting married makes a lady into a spiritual incompetent. Just because Paul had to work in the confines of his society doesn't mean that churches still need to have the sexist ideas of the past right? And all Christians are to submit to each other(whatever that means). I've also heard that it's more of a love and respect each other than a "girls are stupid and need a man to babysit" thing.
                          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                            Of course, making an exception for single women makes one wonder if we really need to act as if getting married makes a lady into a spiritual incompetent.
                            So true! It's like, "Sure, you can go on a mission field, you can lead others to Christ, you can have a degree in Theology...but as soon as you're married...you immediately become dependent upon your husband's leadership." Not a "let's decide together" , but rather "the man *should* listen to you (but doesn't have to) and respect your voice (but doesn't have to) and consider your thinking before *he* makes the "final" decision...but he doesn't have to. He actually sometimes will have to make decisions that his wife disagrees with. For her own good, of course. (Because she can't figure it out herself...or, if she can...she can't because the man has "final say". Not based on competence...but gender alone.) This is so damaging to a woman's self-concept.

                            I believe patriarchy is abusive.
                            Last edited by Wildflower; 09-07-2017, 09:13 AM.
                            Aragorn: What do you fear, my lady?

                            Eowyn: A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire.

                            Aragorn: You are a daughter of kings, a shield maiden of Rohan. I do not think that will be your fate.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Wildflower View Post
                              So true! It's like, "Sure, you can go on a mission field, you can lead others to Christ, you can have a degree in Theology...but as soon as you're married...you immediately become dependent upon your husband's leadership."
                              Presumably to humor a man's need for control. Which still sounds sexist. As if men were power hungry idiots who need humoring. I don't really like how complentarians act like you are a bad Christian who must be pro choice if you disagree with them. Like this blog post that thinks if you don't agree with them, you must be a abortion promoting feminist. Which is crazy. I could claim abortion is sexist for claiming women can't make choices to not do things which could result in a pregnancy or look for other options instead of painting being an accessory to murdering her child as the only option. but that's getting off topic. It's one of the links that popped up when I searched for some of the words in your post.
                              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                              Comment

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