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This is the place for quiet meditations and reflections. No debate is permitted, and we ask that the fact that this is a Christian-owned site be respected in that the majority of the spiritual reflections expressed here will be Christian in perspective. We ask that mediations that are blatantly unorthodox or contrary to Christianity not be posted. Respectful interaction and posting by those of other beliefs is permitted. Moderators are given wide discretion and latitude as to the appropriateness of posts in this area.

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I'm the Dummy

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
    "7 words sung 11 eleven times"
    Yeah, the story goes something like....

    A farmer and his wife moved to the city, and they planned on visiting a local church. Sunday morning, the wife wasn't feeling well, so the husband went alone.
    When he came home, she asked "how was church"?

    He said, "well, it was different - they sing choruses instead of hymns".
    She asked, "what's a chorus?"

    He said, well.....
    A hymn would be like "the brown cow ate some hay"
    A Chorus would be like "the cow, the brown cow, the cow that is brown, ate, and the hay was there, and the brown cow in the grass began to eat, and the cow, the brown cow, the brown cow in the grass...."
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    • #17
      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      I can't stand contemporary worship music and get nothing out of it but I try not to complain about it because I feel it seems self-centered to complain about my own personal preferences in a church service, when it seems other worshipers get plenty out of it.
      Contemporary worship music was the only thing I didn't care for at my Baptist church.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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      • #18
        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
        I can't stand contemporary worship music and get nothing out of it but I try not to complain about it because I feel it seems self-centered to complain about my own personal preferences in a church service, when it seems other worshipers get plenty out of it.

        We aren't supposed to be getting anything out of it. God is supposed to be getting our complete praise and worship. It isn't for us or to be directed at us, it is for and to be directed at God.

        CP, are we derailing your thread? Should we split the music discussion off?


        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by mossrose View Post
          We aren't supposed to be getting anything out of it. God is supposed to be getting our complete praise and worship. It isn't for us or to be directed at us, it is for and to be directed at God.

          CP, are we derailing your thread? Should we split the music discussion off?
          Naw, it's fine -- one of the key factors in our Church's stability seems to be the hymns vs the 7-11 music.
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
            The problem I have with contemporary worship music (at least of the 7-11 variety) is that it's more often than not accompanied by vapid and shallow "self-realization" theology. As long as the theology is still sound I don't really mind if it comes in "easier to digest"-forms, but as soon as it turns into some kind of "God is going to help you become the version of yourself that you've always wanted to be"-theology, that's when I've had enough.
            I don't see what's easier to digest about standing for 45 minutes repeating the same sentences.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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            • #21
              Temporarily back on topic....

              One of the problems we've had is that there are very few men in our congregation who are qualified to serve as Deacons, so I only have two.
              Some other pastors I know have dealt with that by "making exceptions", which I see as "lowering the standards".

              I have believed that the biblical response to a shortage of deacons (due to not meeting qualifications) was to "Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field", and that's what we've been doing.

              Apparently, that's paying off, because I'm seeing a number of potential deacons (not rushing - taking time to evaluate) showing up.
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Temporarily back on topic....

                One of the problems we've had is that there are very few men in our congregation who are qualified to serve as Deacons, so I only have two.
                Some other pastors I know have dealt with that by "making exceptions", which I see as "lowering the standards".

                I have believed that the biblical response to a shortage of deacons (due to not meeting qualifications) was to "Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field", and that's what we've been doing.

                Apparently, that's paying off, because I'm seeing a number of potential deacons (not rushing - taking time to evaluate) showing up.
                Speaking from experience it seems inevitable that when a church decides to "make do" in situations like this they pick people who are unqualified and end up regretting that decision.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  Speaking from experience it seems inevitable that when a church decides to "make do" in situations like this they pick people who are unqualified and end up regretting that decision.
                  Yup... and something else that's been a bone of contention of sorts... Baptists churches "ordain" deacons pretty much "for life". If a deacon falls by the wayside, or otherwise becomes ineligible to serve, he's still "a deacon", and has the ordination certificate to prove it.
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Yup... and something else that's been a bone of contention of sorts... Baptists churches "ordain" deacons pretty much "for life". If a deacon falls by the wayside, or otherwise becomes ineligible to serve, he's still "a deacon", and has the ordination certificate to prove it.
                    That's just wrong.


                    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Yup... and something else that's been a bone of contention of sorts... Baptists churches "ordain" deacons pretty much "for life". If a deacon falls by the wayside, or otherwise becomes ineligible to serve, he's still "a deacon", and has the ordination certificate to prove it.
                      What would be the solution? Recertification every few years?

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        What would be the solution? Recertification every few years?
                        Some churches have exactly that, yes - 2 year commissions.

                        I was in a church in Tyler where a deacon would serve two years - mandatory one year off, no excuses - then pretty much a 'recertification', if you want to call it that, for further service.

                        What was interesting is that a number of men continued to SERVE as deacons (in the pure sense) whether they had the title or were considered "active" or not.
                        Last edited by Cow Poke; 01-29-2020, 02:18 PM.
                        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          Some churches have exactly that, yes - 2 year commissions.
                          Yeah, I was planning on pointing out that it isn't all that uncommon (FWICT) around here with the duration usually around 4-5 years (again, FWICT)

                          ETA: The more I think about the more I think it might not be that long.
                          Last edited by rogue06; 01-29-2020, 02:26 PM.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                            "7 words sung 11 eleven times"
                            Occasionally, you encounter the variant of 11 words sung 7 times.
                            "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                            "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                              Occasionally, you encounter the variant of 11 words sung 7 times.
                              Or even 1 word sung over and over.


                              Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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                              • #30
                                I'm interested by how many people here don't like modern worship music. I grew up with hymns and therefore have a nostalgic fondness for them, but by and large I always found them boring. It was almost like they put me into a comatose state of near-sleep. Maybe because of my youth, I just wasn't interested in the lyrics.

                                But modern worship music was even more boring to me, depending on how it was presented. As in, if you're playing it with just a piano and some vocals, I just can't get into it. So compared to that presentation, I actually preferred a lot of the hymns.

                                For reference, my personal preference in music runs to rock, metal and metalcore bands like Demon Hunter, Disciple, Red, August Burns Red, Skillet, and Thousand Foot Krutch to name a few. It's music that's..."busier" than most hymns or modern worship songs.

                                So, I went through a period of time not that long ago where I didn't regularly attend church. I wasn't in rebellion against God or anything, I just had trouble finding a church where I felt like I belonged and for years my work schedule made regular attendance difficult.

                                So a little over a year ago I began to feel convicted about not having found a church family. I started looking for a church again, including looking further away from where I live than I had previously explored. I landed at this big (for our area church) with a modern praise and worship band. And you know what? For the first time in my life, I found that modern praise and worship music actually enhanced the worship experience! Keep in mind, I'm saying this as someone who's made all the same jokes about modern worship music (and it's still not something I regularly choose to listen to on my own).

                                I'd guess that before the modern information age, (religious) songs served as a means of storytelling and a way of teaching theology in a much bigger way than they do now. In the age of 24-hour news cycles, online university education, and Google...modern praise and worship music is being intentionally written to evoke a sense of reverence and worship, with less emphasis on a detailed message or well-articulated theology, because it's looking to fill a very niche role. Additionally, I'd point out that music with complex lyrics seems suited to an environment where there are less instruments playing the music.

                                The choice of music in worship is largely a matter of preference. My church makes a nod to those who still like the hymns by doing a monthly hymn-service, since all the other services have modern worship music.

                                Also, CP: glad to hear things are going well for your church! :P
                                Last edited by myth; 05-03-2020, 10:58 AM.
                                "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

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